Fox Collectors

Have a 20 GA Sterlingworth Serial #2626XX in great shape. Will this gun have short chambers? Can I shoot 2 3/4" shells ?

Thank you

It will have short chambers if it is factory original and from the Philadelphia era. Many people shoot 2 3/4" low pressure shells from short chamber guns. RST shotshells are made in 2 1/2" with appropriate pressures for vintage guns. The RST route would be your safest bet. Craig

I would have the chambers measured before firing any ammo in them. I have had some Fox SxSs with chambers shorter then 2 1/2"

FOX CHAMBERS --

The only two A.H. Fox Gun Co. catalogues, that I have seen, that state chamber lengths are the 1913 and 1914. They both state 12-gauge guns are regularly chambered for 2 3/4 - inch shells, 16-gauge 2 9/16 – inch shells and 20-gauge 2 1/2 - inch shells. That being said, virtually every 12-gauge Ansley H. Fox gun made in Philadelphia (other than the HE-Grade Super-Fox) that I've run a chamber gauge in shows about 2 5/8 - inch. The chambers of unmolested 16-gauge guns seem to run about 2 7/16 inch and 20-gauge guns a hair over 2 3/8 inch. A very few graded guns were ordered with longer chambers. Savage began stating chambered for 2 ¾ inch shells in their 1938 Fox catalogues.

All this being said there is a good body of evidence that back in those days chambers were held about 1/8 inch shorter than the shells for which they were intended. In the book The Parker Story the Remington vintage specification sheets on pages 164 to 169 call for a chamber 1/8-inch shorter than the shell for which it is intended. Also in the 1930's there were a couple of articles in The American Rifleman (July 1936 and March 1938) on the virtue of short chambers. An issue of The Double Gun Journal carried an article on tests showing no significant increase in pressure from shooting shells in slightly short chambers. IMHO I don't much sweat that 1/8-inch in 12-gauge guns. On the other hand when one gets a 20-gauge chambered at 2 3/8-inch likely intended for 2 1/2-inch shells I do worry about folks firing 2 3/4-inch shells in such guns.

In my business as a professional Gunsmith over the last few years I have measured quite a few 20 and 16 gauge Graded and Sterlingworth Foxes and I have run into guns with chambers shorter then 2 1/2" using a modern plug gauge. I would never recommend shooting a round longer then the chamber as it does raise pressures and put undo stress on the lockup mechanism.

I have 2 SW 20's w/ serial #'s in the 266xxx range. They are Savage/Utica guns and marked 2 3/4 chambers. If your gun is from that era after Savage took over, then you should be good to go. Also have 2 SW 16's (Utica) both marked for 2 3/4.
In my 16 A grade, I routinely shoot 2 3/4, but limit it to lighter loads.

I love rst shotshells. order them by the case and forget everything else. theyre all I shoot in my doubles. 2.5 inch shells will do more than you think..low pressure doesn't mean low power! and theyre even pretty! paper shells, little short shells, I killed two flying crows at 50 yards with my 16 sterly using 2.5 shells!

Bob Odenthal wrote:In my business as a professional Gunsmith over the last few years I have measured quite a few 20 and 16 gauge Graded and Sterlingworth Foxes and I have run into guns with chambers shorter then 2 1/2" using a modern plug gauge. I would never recommend shooting a round longer then the chamber as it does raise pressures and put undo stress on the lockup mechanism.

If it were only so simple.

Could I ask how much the pressure rises?

What I will never understand is why do people think it is OK to fire ammo that is longer then the chamber in their shotgun. I have seen this stated on numerous sites and the misinformation just keeps going around and then becomes excepted as fact. There is more recoil, it will increase pressure and the outcome is it might be dangerous or at least you will be hard on the lockup mechanism and possibly break or crack your stock.

Because testing from the U.K proof Houses and the Sherman Bell series in The Double Gun Journal shows that the increase in pressure from firing shells in chambers up to 1/4 inch short is very slight.

On the other hand, the heaviest 20-gauge loads produced by our ammunition companies were 7/8 ounce up until the 1922 introduction of the 20-gauge Super-X shell with 1 ounce of shot in a 2 3/4 inch shell.



The North American produced 2 1/2 inch 20-gauge shells carried a max load of 2 1/4 drams of bulk smokeless powder or 18 grains of dense smokeless powder such as Infallible or Ballistite. In the 2 3/4 inch and longer shells one could get 2 1/2 drams of bulk smokeless powder pushing the same 7/8 ounce of shot or 20-grains of Infallible or Ballistite.





None of our Ansley H. Fox 20-gauges were intended for the 1 1/8 ounce 20-gauge 2 3/4 inch Magnums, introduced in 1955, or the 20-gauge 3-inch Magnums intrtoduced the year before.

Researcher wrote:Because testing from the U.K proof Houses and the Sherman Bell series in The Double Gun Journal shows that the increase in pressure from firing shells in chambers up to 1/4 inch short is very slight.

I am pleased that you refernce Sherman Bell/Tom Armbrust studies on chamber pressures and shooting vintage guns with Damascus barrels published in the Double Gun Journal. They dispel most of myths about chamber length and shooting guns with Damascus Barrels and should be mandtory reading for anyone interested in owning and shooting vintage shotguns.