Fox Collectors

I would really like to take my fox out waterfowling this year. There are a few woody holes that would be excellent places to hunt with my skeet and upland 12ga.

What I would like to know is if I could safely shoot Kent's Tungsten Matrix from it. the load info is below...

12ga 2 3/4" 1 3/8oz #5's @ 1375 fps
or
12ga 2 3/4" 1/14oz #5's @ 1400 fps

They seem a bit hot and the loads are pretty heavy so I am nervous about using them in the fox. I know all about Nice Shot and would love to find some but it is at the moment unavailable in any reasonable sizes.

Heavy shot classic doubles seems to have been discontinued so that's out as well.

Any advice or other ideas?

This coming week, I'm going to try out the 1 3/8 oz. load in #3 shot for ducks/geese . I've used the Tungsten shot that Remington discontinued last year and was more than impressed with the results. Now the Remingtons were only shot through modern guns but the shot performance was better than any lead I've ever used. I'll be shooting the Kent shells through an 8 lb. Sterlingworth with #2 barrels that has straight grain at the head of the stock and I'm not anticipating any problems. I won't have access to the computer for a week or so but I'll get back to you as to the results. Happy Hunting, Fred

With the assumption that your gun weighs 7 1/4 lbs recoil generated from you two propsed loads is pretty steep.

Your proposed 12ga 2 3/4" 1 3/8oz #5's @ 1375 fps load generates about 46 ft lbs of recoil energy while your 12ga 2 3/4" 1/4oz #5's @ 1400 fps load will generate about 41 ft lbs of recoil energy. I prefer a load such as one and one quarter ounce at 1200 fps which generates only 30 lbs of recoil energy.

my pheasant loads are 1 oz at 1200 fps and the recoil is very manageable but I was hoping to find a factory load I could use for waterfowl.

seems like my best bet will be to wait and pick up some Nice Shot when I can and load up my own....

I shot a few of the tungsten matrix shells when they first came out without any problems. They were 11/4 oz. and did not list Fps or drams eq. I suspect they were a milder load than the ones they sell now. I have been shooting hevi shot classic double shells the last few years. They have performed well but the price went up this year by about a dollar a shell. Mack's Prarie Wings have them in their catalog. I have some RST nice shells on order. I know they will shoot bettor than I do. I am certainly no expert but I am afraid of beating up my gun with some of today's hot loads.

The only A.H. Fox Gun Co. catalogue I've found that gives recommended loads was 1914 --



When the 12-gauge Super-Fox came along it was designed for 1 1/4 ounces of shot at 1330 feet-per-second in a 2 3/4 inch shell, or if chambered for 3-inch shells 1 3/8 ounces at about 1275 fps.

Researcher wrote: When the 12-gauge Super-Fox came along it was designed for 1 1/4 ounces of shot at 1330 feet-per-second in a 2 3/4 inch shell, or if chambered for 3-inch shells 1 3/8 ounces at about 1275 fps.

Thanks DAve. FWIW, that's what I handload for a 3-IN Super Fox used for hunting. Either lead or NICE shot depending on the game. As I'm sure many here know, the recoil that impacts on the head of the stock is based on the mass (weight) of the shot + wad + powder gases...... and the velocity of same. Chamber pressure doesn't play into the formula. Thus I stay within the design parameters.... and don't load or shoot anything heavier than 1-3/8 ounce in a 3-IN Super, and avoid anything greater than about 1275 fps. And I'll stay at or under 1-1/4 ounce in heavier 12 gauge Foxes, say those weighing at least in the higher 7 pound range. My personal hunting max for lighter 12 gauge Foxes is 1-1/8 ounce. All at ~1275 fps max. Again these all my personal MAXIMUM loads used for hunting. My target loads are way lighter. Those wont to use the modern marketing "speed kills" phrase would do well to spend the day on a clays range with a good shot using 1150 fps or so loads. The difference in time of flight on a far away target using 1150 fps, or 1400 fps, loads, with the same shot size, is so small as to be just about imperceptible. That's because the higher initial velocity (at the muzzle) bleeds off so very quickly. Those who study ballistics understand the physics involved but often the marketing hype, i.e., heavy loads and extra high velocity, seems to offer magic to make up for poor shooting. Silvers

I did not mention in my previous post that the Hevi Shot shells were 11/8 oz. Some were listed at 1150fps and others at 1250fps. I didn't notice a difference. The RST shells I have on order are one ounce and 1200fps. The RST shells are 21/2 inches long. My son shoots my fathers old Model 12. I am anxious to see if the short shells will cycle in the pump.

Loggy,
I've shot 2 1/2 "shells through several M-12"s and never had a problem.
Jim

Jim,
Thanks for your reply.
Loggy