Fox Collectors

Hi to everyone,

In business, sports, and so on an old adage is that “Every organization goes through the following stages; “Storming, Forming, and Norming”. I think this association is near the end of the Storming stage and maybe starting the Norming. In the hope of helping this fine young organization and in stimulating the online participants on this forum I offer the following observations and opinions.

1. Many, many thanks to those unpaid and often unappreciated member of the Board of Directors and especially to the Webmaster of this organization. In any organization there are a few hard working members who do ALL the work! Then there are those like me who pay my money and rarely thank them for what they do. I am a member of the Parker, LC Smith, and Fox collectors associations and should join the Lefever group because the cost of membership is often recovered via the information gained in these forums in one “smart” purchase or sale of a vintage double. Not everyone needs to join every organization but if one uses this site a lot please think about it. Your dues will be returned many times in the fine newsletter and information gained from it and this site.

2. Everyone should be polite when online. Offend a new guy once and he may not return…

Posting is a one-dimensional form of communication. With it we lack any body language, inflection of voice, and other nuances that as humans our brains use to interpret messages. It is easy to post something that others find insulting or belittling. Please try not to do so. The ability to communicate in written form is what makes some writers great. Notice I stated “some”. Most of us including me struggle to put thoughts on paper that will communicate our thoughts.

For all: Use punctuation, sentence structure, and paragraphs, PLEASE. My anal brain, which has worked hard to learn to communicate in a literate written manner, struggles when deciphering cryptic codes and “texting”. I am not a “code breaker” for the NSA!!! Admittedly this style of writing doesn’t affect everyone nearly as much as it does me. The Board Members should be as particular about their written communications as they are about their cherished AH Fox guns! After all, you are representing the association!

3. This statement is not meant to offend, rather it is meant as a positive example: The Parker Gun Collectors Association (PCGA) provides the premier web-experience of the doublegun websites that I know about to include doublegunshop.com. Why?

a. The PGCA is a long standing organization which has undoubtedly learned via experiences what works and doesn’t work for THEIR organization.

b. When one posts on the Parker forums there are no dumb questions. Let me refer to them as naïve questions which are ALWAYS answered in a short time. Someone with the proper knowledge will post answers in a positive and supportive manner . Additionally, if someone is rude in their response other members quickly ask them to lighten up and play nice.

c. The Parker webmaster, J.D., has spent been building “online communities” since the Internet became popular. J.D. is one of the nicest persons that one will ever meet and/or talk to. An email and subsequent phone call to him concerning how to make this site more interactive and easier to use will be time well spent.

d. The font (size of letters) presented on screen on the Parker forums doesn’t make my eyes strain. I can’t say the same about his site. A simple thing like polling a dozen users who are over 50 and too vain to use their reading glasses would probably provide confirmation to this.

4. Pay attention to suggestions for new sub-forums desired/needed and as to what should be in the members only forum. Perhaps an email poll of the membership concerning this is in order? Once again, look at the Parker site for it seems to work!

5. I often only check the member’s forum for a few reasons. The biggest is that as a new guy to the world of AH Fox I have little information to share. As my Fox use and collection grow I’m sure this will change but for now, I am guilt of often taking the easy way on simply reading the members only section. Okay, I will read the general forum more often and it I can help, will post answers.

6. This is a pet pieve but... In the past I posted photos and a description of a recently restored HE Super Fox. To that not one comment was posted: http://foxcollectors.com/My%20Forum/php ... =13&t=3144

Did I violate the unwritten rules by saving a “hunted hard and put away wet” Super Fox? I know that others seemed to like the work because according to the gunsmith, Brad Bachelder, he received a few very abused HE’s for similar restorations! Oh, he won’t tell me who owns the guns or even let me see them. So, if my restoration wasn’t worthy of a compliment why are you guys sending so much work to my gunsmith which in turn delays any subsequent restorations I ask him to do?

I was pretty proud of having this HE restored but no one on this forum seemed to care. The same photos generated much interest when posted on the Parker forum!

For me, a lack of responses makes me reluctant to post more photo spreads here.

PS: I have since hunted this HE to include using it in a layout boat on the Saginaw Bay. How many would take a 90%+ original HE into those conditions? Yes, I put a ding in this restoration while hunting toward which it visited the gunsmith for a little TLC. “Dinging” a 90% original gun can be costly! Not so with a restoration. Simply have the ding corrected and the gun is a good as new or at least as good as restored!

Back to the story… Duck hunting with a good looking HE is magic! Heck, I’m right handed but made a remarkable left handed kill on a fast passing Redhead from the layout boat with this gun. If only she could talk for that shot would be added to her tales of hunters past…
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So there are a few comments and opinions for what they are worth!

Most respectfully shared with all members, active participants, and lurkers!
Mark

If you want to make the font larger just press and hold the Control key on your keyboard and at the same time press the + key. Craig

Craig,

Thank you for your response. That is a good suggestion and easy enough to do but why should the user need to adjust this forum every time they login? If this was a commercial site trying to market a product I think the font would have been made a little easier for the target audiance to read. Most SxS guys are over 40 if not closer to 60 years old!

Sometimes people do not realize why they do not favor using some websites. Colors, fonts, layouts, ease of navigation and so on all contribute the the users' positive or "tiring" website experiances.

I suggested a poll (survey) to collect user feedback. If feedback suggests that font is too small without adjustment could the webmaster adjust it?

Mark

Mark: We use phpbb software to run the forum, it is free shareware. I can not change the default font size, sorry. We could change the style of the forum, many different styles exist for phpbb software. If a member with phpbb software programing skills would like to take on the project no problem, it is beyond my skill level. The Parker web administrator has skills WAY beyond mine. They run V bulletin software which is not free. They host their own web site and have their own servers, we not even in the same solar system with respect to capabilities. I am not a computer professional, just a retired manufacturing executive.
You have many good ideas but comparing the resources of the Parker collectors to the AHFCA is apples to oranges.
We struggle, our most immediate need is people who want to work and/or write articles for our Newsletter. To date our appeals for both have come up short. I would love to improve the AHFCA but it takes people stepping up to the plate and working on a specific project. I am all ears.

Hello Big Ten,

First, thank you for the constructive comments/critique, regarding AHFCA website etiquette or lack thereof. As one of the five "pastors" here at the Church of Ansley H., allow me a short rebuttal.

I too, believe that we have reached a critical inflection point within the association. One favorite adage that comes to my mind, deals with the 3 types of workers in any given company. Simply put, there are those who MAKE IT HAPPEN, those who WATCH IT HAPPEN and those who ask, WHAT THE HELL JUST HAPPENED. Sadly, we can liken this to our membership ranks and unfortunately for us, very few ascribe to first grouping of the three. The point-blank fact remains: if the 5 BOD's went on sabbatical, a vast percentage of this fine organization would dissipate quicker than a touch of flatulence in a 30 knot cross-wind.

Put another way....."ask not, what the AHFCA can do for you, ask instead, what you can do for the AHFCA....."

I hear Dave Noreen begging for newsletter articles. Who steps forth.....the BOD's!!!!!! Big-Ten. You write with a smooth- flowing, eloquent style and I for one, would love to hear of your exploits with your restored Super Fox. Sooooooo, why not, JUST DO-IT????

How many times have we asked for member's guns to display at events?? And who, time after time, fills the racks....the BOD's!!!!! If Grandpa's Sterly means something to you, then for god's sake, feel free to show it off or write about it. And shame on us, if we ever display a pretentious attitude toward lower grade guns or "shooters". I do think we all realize how quickly that behavior can exstinguish the most ardent flames from our "new-blood" or non-collector ranks.

How many times have we asked members to take charge at a new venue or one that is not on our yearly events calendar?? No reason the AHFCA couldn't have a small presence at a few more shoots held annually throughout the country. The reason is simple....we ask..... but no one ever steps up.

I certainly don't mean to sound at all jaded here, as this is, truly a labor of love for many of us. It just seems as of late, the "labor" is out-boxing the "love".

AHFCA disclaimer: "The views and opinions put forth here are not necessarily those shared by the rest of the BOD's...but then again, don't bet against it!!!!

Sincerely,

Father Toolman

Interesting topic here. As a late to the event type Fox user (not really a collector) I can only advise I like the guns. They are simple elegant and easy to work on. As a person who shot o/u's for years, I was late to the sxs game. In fact the first sxs I ever owned was a Merkel as I was stationed in Germany at the time and frankly they were cheap and made like tanks. However, they sure didn't have much flow or looks to them. Got back from Germany in the late 1999 and really didn't know a Fox from a Parker. Just old guns and heck, I had my German gun which would shoot anything made and laugh it off. Back in those pre-internet days information was hard to come by. As a Virginia guy, not many Foxes were around. The few that were in the Shenandoah valley were Sterlingworth 12 gauges. Most of those were well used at best. Frankly still didn't pay too much attention to them. Then Michael M. book on Foxes came out and I was obsessed with getting a small bore. Finally ended up hearing about a gunshop located in Luray Va and called the owner and asked about getting a Fox SW in 20 or 16 gauge. He had a 20 gauge A grade in stock and bingo I was headed there. However after arriving and looking at the gun I noticed the barrels didn't look right. They were round they were oblong. Even my very untrained eye could see something was amiss. Asked him if He had anything else and he pointed out a 16 gauge Sterlingworth on the rack some distance away. Went over and looked and realized really quickly it was a early 16 gauge A grade with snap on forum and the price was circa $1,100. Well, I pulled the funds out so fast my hands were shaking as I finally had what I was looking for and had sort of lost by sxs american classic virginity. Got it home and was amazed how light and quick it was to bring to the shoulder. Then shortly after I found this website and ordered a letter for the gun and found it was the 33 16 gauge ever made.

Since that time I've bought and sold more then a few Foxes. No high grades, although I did briefly own a B grade that had been redone (and poorly) and quickly re-sold it for a loss (not a big loss, but a loss none the less). Somewhere in that time I decided to do a special custom gun to honor my then 9 year old Golden retriever who had hunted with me from Maine to Montana. Found a recommendation on this forum for a place in Rome Pa called PGS guns and made a trip up north. I'd sold a bunch of other guns to finance the project and decided I wanted a full blown custom based on a Fox Sterlingworth Ejector 12 gauge that would be restocked and reshaped to make it something special. Bought some nice English Walnut and found a donor SW in really nice condition and made the trip. Here, 3 years later I'm still waiting for that gun to be finished. No problems on my end, but delivery dates on certain aspects of the job didn't happen as promptly as they should have. Gun is still awaiting engraving almost 2 years later (but I'm getting there).

I've rattled on here, but what I'm trying to say is I couldn't have done what I've done without the help of folks on this forum. For the most part they have been very helpful. I have realized over time, that they (much like the Parker Group) like unrestored guns and most don't care for a custom Fox because they want original guns. Understand that completely, but for me I wanted something no one else has ever probably had and I think the Foxes are the ideal platform to start with. I also think they are great guns to use in the field and are generally the lightest and sweetest swinging classic guns out there. Thus in my safe I currently have 3, plus I have two custom Foxes being worked on as well as Pin gun having some work done as well. Not sure if I'll buy another any time soon as I'm a user not a collector and all my guns will frankly spend most of their time in the field doing what they were designed to do.

Well, been running off at the mouth for some time. In closing, I went hunting this past week with my now 12 year old Golden at a local preserve. With me was my 20 gauge Ejector SW with a beavertail that has been my go to gun this entire hunting season. We did well. Every bird I shot at came home in the game bag, and more importantly my 12 year old golden (with bad hips and worse right leg) was able to strutt her stuff in what might be her last time in the field. I've got lots of guns which I could have used this past week including a Parker CH in 16 gauge. It was no coincidence that the gun I choose was that 20 gauge SW. Anyway a few pictures are attached. Take care and god bless.

Hi Father Toolman,

Thanks for your response. Sorry if you are jaded. I've paid my dues running youth shooting programs and in that felt a little jaded at times. It happens to the best of us. I do make contributions of my time, money, and gun displays to the Parker association. But like I stated, I know little, at least compared to you guys, about AH Fox guns.

You write with a smooth- flowing, eloquent style and I for one, would love to hear of your exploits with your restored Super Fox. Sooooooo, why not, JUST DO-IT????

Now, had you or anyone else given even one positive comment toward my restored HE, I might have thought that such a gun was accepted by this fine organization. Instead, your silence and that of all others left me wonder what the heck, are only perfect original condition Foxes acceptable? Maybe I'm strange but since a perfect Super Fox is beyond my financial reach and certainly deserves to be a safe and show queen rather than a duck gun, I'll pay for a restoration and use it during its second life! Hey, now that's a title for a good story.

A story is a good idea. I jotted this one down in a couple hours after a special day with my dog. Unfortuantely, I did not take the time to edit it very well....
http://www.parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5943
The above story was posted on the "Hunting with Parkers" PCGA sub-forum.

This thread shows me with a 32" restored first year A Grade Fox. My Parker friend listed the gun incorrectly as a Super Fox:
http://www.parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5570
I just like the way this gun 1907 A Grade feels!

The above paragraph concerning a restored Fox ties into Vaturkey's post above. Some people collect original vintage guns, some people enjoy shooting and hunting with vintage guns, some people enjoy restoring vintage guns, and some do all of these! I hope that all are accepted here. I agree that a Sterlingworth is the perfect platform for a custom Fox! I have a couple Sterlys with 32" barrels that may someday fall under the engraver's tools. I also have a second Super Fox with that needs to be restocked. It is to soon sport Exhibition grade wood with XE checkering and a long forend similar to the custom AE that was recently passed into my care.

Once again I post this in a positive light hoping to inspire a little something in this fine organization.

PS: For those reading that haven't joined yet, please do for great things are certainly forthcoming!

Respectfully,
Mark

Early A Grades with 32" barrel are a bit uncommon. What is the serial number of your first year gun? If I have the consecutive numbered gun, I'll send it to you.

Bill,

My first year gun is the next to the last gun made that year per this chart; http://www.doublegunshop.com/dgsnos1.htm

Mark

My 32" is #7121, and I also have #7575 and #8833. #8833 is a project custom gun under construction. The early A Grades are wonderfully fitted guns with the greatest case colors of any gun made. Guns with original colors are hard to find but a prize when you find one.

Bill,

I also have a 30" A grade from 1910, #15299. It weighs 6 lb 15 oz and should make a great pheasant gun!

Mark