Fox Collectors

Would a 1908 A Grade Sterlingworth in 12 gauge have 2 3/4" chambers from the factory? Thanks.

There is no such thing. A gun is either an A-Grade or it is a Sterlingworth. In that you mention 1908, it must be an A-Grade, because the Sterlingworth came out in 12-gauge in 1910, as a The Sterlingworth Co. gun and in 1911 was added to the A.H. Fox Gun Co. catalogues. My canned Fox chambers reply --

FOX CHAMBERS --

The only two A.H. Fox Gun Co. catalogues, that I have seen, that state chamber lengths are the 1913 and 1914. They both state 12-gauge guns are regularly chambered for 2 3/4 - inch shells, 16-gauge 2 9/16 – inch shells and 20-gauge 2 1/2 - inch shells. That being said, virtually every 12-gauge Ansley H. Fox gun made in Philadelphia (other than the HE-Grade Super-Fox) that I've run a chamber gauge in shows about 2 5/8 - inch. The chambers of unmolested 16-gauge guns seem to run about 2 7/16 inch and 20-gauge guns a hair over 2 3/8 inch. A very few graded guns were ordered with longer chambers. Savage began stating chambered for 2 ¾ inch shells in their 1938 Fox catalogues, and very late Savage-era guns are marked as to chamber length. Also, older guns that were back to Savage for repairs got reproofed and marked as to chamber length.

All this being said there is a good body of evidence that back in those days chambers were held about 1/8 inch shorter than the shells for which they were intended. In the recently published book The Parker Story the Remington vintage specification sheets on pages 164 to 169 call for a chamber 1/8-inch shorter than the shell for which it is intended. Also in the 1930's there were a couple of articles in The American Rifleman (July 1936 and March 1938) on the virtue of short chambers. A series by Sherman Bell in The Double Gun Journal showed no significant increase in pressure from shooting shells in slightly short chambers. IMHO I don't much sweat that 1/8-inch in 12-gauge guns. On the other hand when one gets a 20-gauge chambered at 2 3/8-inch likely intended for 2 1/2-inch shells I do worry about folks firing 2 3/4-inch shells in such guns.

Long shells shells have been around just about as long as cartridge shotguns have been around. My UMC catalogues from 1903 to the 1923 Remington Arms Co., Inc. catalogue offer 12-gauge paper shells in 2 5/8, 2 3/4, 2 7/8, 3 and 3 1/4 inch (the 3 1/4 inch shells were dropped before WW-I). The 16-gauge was available 2 9/16, 2 3/4, 2 7/8, and 3 inch. The 20-gauge was offered in 2 1/2, 2 3/4, 2 7/8, and 3 inch. In those days these longer shells didn't pack a heavier payload, but more and better wadding for a better gas seal which many serious Pigeon shooters thought to be an advantage. The first time I see the longer shells packing a heavier load was around 1912 for the longer 20-gauge shells for guns like the famous Widgeon Duck Club Parker Bros. guns and the J. Stevens A & T Co. pump gun. These longer 20-gauge shells packed 2 1/2 drams of bulk smokeless powder (or 20-grains of Ballistite dense smokeless powder) and 7/8 ounce of shot as opposed to the max load of 2 1/4 drams of bulk smokeless powder (or 18 grains of Ballistite) and 7/8 ounce of shot in the standard 2 1/2 inch 20-gauge shell!!!





Several of the early Ansley H. Fox graded 20-gauge guns, circa 1912-13 were chambered for the 3-inch shell of that period. A.H. Fox Gun Co. would chamber new guns for longer shells on request, and we find a few so ordered in the records. One of our members picked up a 12-gauge 2nd generation B-Grade that was ordered "Chamber for 3" Shell" on the production card. There are no markings on the guns indicating longer than "standard" chambers.

Thank you Dave. That is very good information and explains a lot for me.

Thanks again,

Mike

Thanks for the very detailed reply. My bad on the Sterly reference.