Pair Of Fox's Found Today{Update More Pics}

[Augie]

Came across a pair of AH Fox Philly guns today that I took a gamble on and purchased. First is an early A grade,244xx in decent shape, has ejectors,lever just right of center,. wood has most likely been re checkered and you can see a wood dowel in the panel checkering,butt plate I think has been replaced, barrels are 28" and choked full and full.
Second is a X grade,274xx, ejectors,decent shape with lever to right,sharp engraving, also 28" full and full. This one has some more serious wood issues in that finish has been stripped,stock cut,hairline cracks behind tang.Will need wood restored.
Both guns are tight, function tested them at range and both fire and eject strong, ejectors are timed.
I admit to not being very knowledgeable about Fox guns so I am looking for any information you can share,such as dates of production,number of grade made, appreciate your time.
Posting some quick pics,not the best, hope it helps.

[George Lander]

Augie: You have two fine Foxes there, well worth the cost retoration of the wood. Tell us where you live and perhaps we can recommend someone to do the job right, especially on the XE. That's one beautiful piece of wood on the A Grade.

Best Regards, George Lander
palmettotreasure@aol.com

[ASavageFox]

Augie,

Couple of nice looking guns!! I could not see the dowel and who ever touched up the checkering did a great job... with that nice of a peice of wood... I am almost wondering if that A grade was custom ordered with higher grade wood and checkering though the forearm checkering looks like A grade.

As for numbers... no one knows on the 12 bores... TONS of A grades... not nearly as many X grades... they are not rare but they ARE desirable... looks like there is plenty of wood there to repair and refinish... get a Silvers pad and have a leather face put on it... or even better... join the AFGCA and get a card request and make sure that is how it left the factory... a leather faced Silvers pad would have been the "standard"

Nice guns!

[Augie]

Thanks guys, have started to clean them up carefully and they are in better shape than I thought. I'm beginning to think the AE has an older restore, very nicely reblued barrels and the wood redone,maybe even an old restock,work appears to be high quality.
The XE is much better than I thought, the metal has very little wear and I think a professional should have no problem with the wood. The blue is in very good shape and may be original.
George, I am in MD, I know of the excellent work of Dewey Vicknair and met him at a LC Smith shoot, any others in this area you can recommend?
Printed out the membership form and will be sending in for my membership as long as you don't mind having someone from the LC Smiths Collectors
Here are some more pic's of the guns.
AE stock,



XE fore end and stock,



XE Barrel flats and engraving,

[George Lander]

Augie: You have two beautiful examples of what A.H. Fox Gun Company was capable of. Although I have never used him Dewey Vicknair is highly regarded by members of this club.
If you were a littly closer I would recommend Jim Kelly of Darlington Gun Works, Darlington, South Carolina Phone (843) 383-3831. It was he who re-stocked "Bo Whoop".

Welcome to the World of Fox!

Best Regards, George

[Parker16]

Go ahead and join Augie! They even let a few of us Parker guy's hang around.....

[Researcher]

The butt stock on that A-Grade is not original A.H. Fox Gun Co. wood, and that is not an A.H. Fox Gun Co. butt plate, with screw down so low in the toe. I have two A.H. Fox smallbores in my collection that have been re butt plated with that plate, which is exactly like the butt plates on my RBL Launch Edition and my RBL-28?!? Hmmmm..... The stock on the XE-Grade certainly looks to be original A.H. Fox Gun Co. work, but is super plain for an XE-Grade of that vintage.

[eightbore]

Augie, in what part of MD do you live? I live in God forsaken Montgomery County, but at least I am on the edge of the "Agricultural Reserve". I am visiting Dewey Vicknair tomorrow to discuss an ongoing project. He is a good choice for restoration if restoration is what you want. Email me if you want someone to have a look at your guns, assuming we are close to one another. wilmrph@verizon.net Bill Murphy

[Augie]

Researcher, good call on the butt plate, I had it off last night and by the inner finish suspect it is repro, interesting thing is that there are 2 filled screw holes in board of these holes.
Bill, I'm in Carroll county, close enough, will drop you an e-mail, would like to show you the guns.
Thanks

[james-l]

Interesting thoughts on the buttplate, how do you explain this, 3 A grades, left is #2496, center is #16913, right is #13627. The first 2 are original length and have the 2 original screw holes for a buttplate with the lower screw very low in the toe, #13627 has been cut and a pad added but the old lower screw hole is still visible. The 2nd photo shows the plate that was on #2496, I am fairly sure it is the original plate. Another A I have, #21707 has the toe screw in the position in Dave's photo. Buttplates must have changed between 16913 and 21707.

Jim A.

[mc15426378]

Here are a couple of pics of one of my guns with a shorter spaced butt plate. When I bought this gun she had an illegitimate butt plate on her. Upon removal of this plate I found what is in the first picture. Spacing between the top and first lower hole is 3 1/16", top hole to bottom hole is 3 3/8" (spacing of the illegitimate plate). The narrower spaced holes are close to a small bore gun but this is a 12 ga 32" A, 1913 vintage with heavy # 1 wt barrels. Serial # 184XX. Definitely not a lightweight small bore.

So my quest for a good used Fox plate started. After several weeks of searching I found that a small bore plate would work, for the hole spacing, but would be too small in length & width. I then decided to go the repop route but then found most were either too short/narrow or the hole spacing was 3 3/4" which would not work on this gun. Finally stumbled onto plate # PB110 from Galazan. Plate specs state the spacing is
2 15/16" but when I measured I got 3". Second picture is the Galazan plate installed on the gun.

Is it possible the factory fit different plates based on the heel to toe stock length? Mike

[Researcher]

Maybe you have something there. Maybe there was a period of time that was the "correct" butt plate. Here are butt plates from 1910, 1922, 1929, 1936 and 1938 that I believe to be original and correct.



Right after I took this picture I swapped the screws in the 1910 and they now index straight up and down.

Here are the two butt plates that I believe to be "incorrect" replacements, a 1937 gun left and a 1920 gun right --

[Augie]

Thought I would throw a picture in of the filled holes under my butt plate. Also wondering if this is the correct grip cap for an AE, looks like horn with no A H Fox like the XE has.

[eightbore]

That picture looks like the unfilled holes may be the original holes and the filled holes were drilled by an idiot for a recoil pad or replacement buttplate.

[Researcher]

For an A-Grade of that vintage the grip cap should have been smooth. The company name grip caps were usually only on C/CE-Grades and higher, but who am I to say I only own three graded Fox guns with capped pistol grips!! The great bulk of the Fox grip caps I own are on Sterlingworths.

I see the grip cap on the left in use up to about the early 1920s and the one at right from the mid- to later 1920s.



That grip cap on the left seems to have been a stock product and is also found on the earlier full pistol grip Parker Bros. and some Baker doubles. It is the grip cap on the BE-Grade Fox 20-gauge Headrick did an article on in The Double Gun Journal, Volume Fifteen, Issue 4. That gun was said to have been shipped October 25, 1917. A very slightly different cap I find on early Ithacas, Tobins and Baltimore Arms Co. guns. Like safeties and top levers, these grip caps were likely in parts bins and workers reached in and grabbed one. New stock was thrown in the bin on top of old, and quite possibly every now an then an older style grip cap would work its way to the top and get used.