Fox Collectors

I plan to fit a middle sight bead to the rib of my Sterlingworth, however I'm not sure of the best location along the rib to provide the best sight picture. It occurs to me that the best location might be the same as on the original Foxes. Can someone tell me how far back from the muzzle the mid-bead was located on original guns? (Preferably on a 30" barrel) Is the dimension uniform on all guns? or dependent on barrel lengths? Thanks.

I've measured a bunch of Foxes and the midbead USUALLY falls at the midpoint....ie: 28" bbls....midbead at 14" from both ends.

tjw

MARSHFELLOW wrote:I've measured a bunch of Foxes and the midbead USUALLY falls at the midpoint....ie: 28" bbls....midbead at 14" from both ends.

tjw

Don't mean to become labeled a smart "A" (well maybe a little) but perhaps that is why it is called a "mid bead".

More important than whether it's at mid-length +/- 1", is whether it's actually centered left/right.....an error of .003" inches will result in ruined barrels, IMO.

mike campbell wrote:More important than whether it's at mid-length +/- 1", is whether it's actually centered left/right.....an error of .003" inches will result in ruined barrels, IMO.

Just as a matter of curiosity how many of you guys actually see the mid bead or the front bead for that matter when you are shooting and hitting targets?

When I am on I don't see anything but the target and perhaps a blur of the end of barrels.

For me anyway, it depends how much time I have and how deliberate I am being with the shot as to how much I see the beads. Personally, I find it (them) helpful in ensuring that I have a good firm mount with my head down on the stock and now no side to side misalignment. Given that many of us don't have the luxury of a fitted gun, we must fit ourselves to the gun in hand and having two beads helps me to do that. The more one practices with a given gun, the more confirmed the correct sight picture becomes til eventually you don't conciously need to see the sights, instead focusing fully on the target. But uncouciously our brains are still aware of that alignment, or that's my personal opinion, your mileage may vary.....
Thanks for the measurement guys. I originally thought the middle of the rib was logical, but looking at my Remington 1100 skeet gun, it has the mid-bead mounted closer to the muzzle by an inch or so. I thought it better to get a sanity check, measure twice and cut once and all that.

mike campbell wrote:More important than whether it's at mid-length +/- 1", is whether it's actually centered left/right.....an error of .003" inches will result in ruined barrels, IMO.

Would most machine shops be able to handle drilling the hole, or would a gunsmith be better?

Fin I'll bet you have some excellent machine shops down there in Wichita that support the aviation industry that are quite capable of maintaining exacting tolerances. I would venture that they have much better machinery than even some of the better gun smiths around.

Fin2Feather wrote:

mike campbell wrote:More important than whether it's at mid-length +/- 1", is whether it's actually centered left/right.....an error of .003" inches will result in ruined barrels, IMO.

Would most machine shops be able to handle drilling the hole, or would a gunsmith be better?

I don't know the answer to that. If someone asked my opinion about adding one, I'd do my darndest to talk them out of it. If it was someone I knew personally, I'd try to talk them out of it whether they asked me or not.

I like mid-beads very much on Foxes, but only when done perfectly and as near a copy of the originals as possible. Also like them on my comp guns. On the field guns it is exactly as sidreilly explained, but on my comp guns, that I shoot premounted, I go through the same exact pre-shot routine everytime I mount. I look down the rib quickly to be certain I have mounted perfectly and the beads are "stacked" just a little, then look back toward the trap and call for the bird. It is reassuring when shooting a field gun that does not fit perfectly to mount it several times and look down the rib at the beads, checking alignment, as I mentally note how the gun is nestled into my shoulder. It just helps me build muscle memory with a particular gun before the birds start flying. Other than that, I think they just look classy on a double.

I would not allow anyone to drill for a mid-bead without a very good rib center finder, and then only someone I trusted completely. I've got a 32" New Leader 12 gauge that had two white beads added at some time, not centered, and it looks bloody awful.

mike campbell wrote:I don't know the answer to that. If someone asked my opinion about adding one, I'd do my darndest to talk them out of it. If it was someone I knew personally, I'd try to talk them out of it whether they asked me or not.

And you'd do that because...

Any competent machinist using an edge finder and milling machine will be able to place the mid-bead hole within 1/2 thou (.0005") of dead center on the rib. Nonetheless, I'd have a good gunsmith do the work. If you install a tapered-fit mid bead, ala original Lyman, etc., the machinist will likely not have the taper reamer which is peculiar to gunsmithing. Likewise, if you do a threaded mid bead, the machine shop may not have the special UNF tap, nor the bead grabber tool to keep the bead from getting damaged when screwed home. Gunsmiths generally have these items and you don't have to buy them just for one job.

Personally I like the mid-bead back farther toward the breech. Maybe at 13 - 14" ahead of the breech on a 30" barrel. Silvers

Spoken like a true machinist Frank, thanks for the insights. I left the gun with a local smith yesterday and he assured me that it would be no problem using his mill to get the bead exactly centered. Frankly, I find it hard to believe that the eye can detect a 3 thou deviation side to side when it's actually focused on infinity (the target). The bead inn question is a Marble's white with tapered shank. I plan to use a Lyman white bead up front on a tapered shank which I assume will match the original Fox taper. I would have preferred a Bradley front and may go to that eventually but the Lyman requires no threading and looks a bit more original for now. To me, Bradleys appear to sit higher so the mid bead can be seen more as stacked underneath.
Thanks for the information and thoughts gents.

I find it hard to believe that someone would think they need a mid-bead....but doesn't know where to put it.