Fox Collectors

Wondering if anyone knew what marking is that is above the D-3, above the barrel flats. Is it a number or letter or symbol? What does it mean?
Also what does the D and 3 mean?
thanks

The 3 is the rough weight of the barrel tubes. Apparently there are two slightly different Three-lobed crown over a D marks. If the lobes are rounded it is Delcour a Belgian maker, and if they are pointed Didiere barrel works of St Etienne, France.

Its a Sterlingworth circa 1926, so does that mean that the gun was not made in phily pa?
Is it rare to find a stamp like this on sterlingworths?

Fox didn't make their own barrels. They were outsourced to different places overseas. They were received as rough blanks and then put together into complete barrels at the fox factory(s) whether that was in Phil or Uttica. If your gun was made in 1926 it's a Philly gun. Recommend you by the following: http://www.amazon.com/H-Fox-Michael-McI ... 092435724X

Will give you lots and lots of information and I use mine all the time.

PS. No idea if the stamp is rare or not as I haven't seen enough Foxes to say for sure.

Interesting! thank you very much vaturkey

The rough tubes for American double barrel shotgun barrels were virtually all purchased from outside suppliers, mostly in Europe. This started in the earliest days with twist and Damascus tubes and lasted at least up to WW-II. In steel, the well known names were of course Sir Joseph Whitworth, Krupp, Cockerill and DeMoya. The great bulk of the steel tubes found on American doubles seem to have come from three suppliers -- I have observed LLH, SB&Co., and a D with a three-lobed crown over it on American doubles -- Ansley H. Fox, Ithaca, Baker, Lefever, etc.
LLH is the mark of Lochet Habran of Jurille, Belgium.
Apparently there are two slightly different Three-lobed crown over a D marks. If the lobes are rounded it is Delcour a Belgian maker, and if they are pointed Didiere barrel works of St Etienne, France.
The SB&Co. mark is likely Sanderson Bros. & Co., a Sheifield, England, company that set up a branch in Syracuse, New York. I have found Sanderson Bros. & Company ads in old Syracuse city directories.

The American double gun manufacturers then stamped whatever fancifiul names they felt like on the tubes -- Fox used Sterlingworth and Chromox; Baker used Homo-Tensil and Flui-Tempered; Parker Bros. used Trojan, Vulcan, Parker, Parker Special, Titanic, Acme and Peerless; Hunter Arms Co. (L.C. Smith) used Armor, London, Nitro, Pigeon Nitro and Crown; etc.

one more question, is it common to see that marking on other 12gauge sw foxes? Just wondering if it adds to the 'value' of the gun? Not planning on selling at all just wanted to know if ive got something more rare to brag about or if ALL silverworths have these markings. thanks Reasearcher,

Yes it is common to see the tube-maker's/supplier's marks. No, there is no premium for a particular maker's/supplier's mark. The general tendancy is that the tube-maker's/supplier's marks got filed off the tubes on lighter weight guns, but more often remain on heavier weight guns. I certainly wouldn't put any premium on a gun just because it had a particular tube supplier's mark.

Just was wondering why do people file off the stamp on light weight barrels?

I was wondering the same thing. Here you can see my 16 gauge Sterlingworth with the area where the markings would be under the barrels ground off.

ROMAC, That is typical of Utica guns. On the heavier barrels(#1 or2), the numbers are sometimes there,but on the lighter tubes(#3 or 4) they are most likely to be struck or filed off during the fitting process, by the gunmakers. This wasn't done to hide something, it was just part of the process. Often you can see just a bit of the markings if you clean the area with degreaser and look with a magnifier and a flash light. While this stuff is interesting, it has no bearing on the function or the value of the gun. FRED

Not just people, the workmen at Fox who were assembling the rough tubes into finished barrels. These marks often got removed in the process of striking the barrels to get down to the desired finished weight. Headrick did an article of a very light weight BE-Grade 20-gauge in The Double Gun Journal where the card states "strike 4 oz from barrels, bore out stock."

Last night I was cleaning and putting away a Sterlingworth 20ga that I acquired in the fall. I noticed these markings on the left barrel and it got me curious. Fast forward to now, I do a little searching around and the answer is already provided right here! I am not really trying to resurrect such an old thread as much as I want to convey gratitude for the wealth of information that already exists here. Thanks to all who have provided information along the way in some way, big or small! I am more informed now than I was last night, just as it should be!

Dave answered the question, but there is more information here regarding U.S. doublegun maker's tube sources, and unfortunately much that we still don't understand, and probably never will unless original purchase orders/invoices surface
https://docs.google.com/document/d/17ix ... Wd-KI/edit