Fox Collectors

Greetings,
I recently stumbled up this site and am pleased to find it and the wealth of knowledge that the members share with one another.

Please see the pictures and identified markings below. I own a Fox given to me by my now deceased grandfather, who inherited it from his father. The gun is in poor repair and recently was sent to a gunsmith to get the gun into shooting shape. The smith was unable to complete the repairs so I will eventually save enough pennies to send it to someone like Turnbull.

For now, I'm interested in determining if what I believe I have is what the gun likely started life as. I've inquired with Callahan and am informed that the factory card was among the group lost in the fire. I also own and have read the fine volume by Michael McIntosh. The book is obviously not intended for intensive research, which leaves me at the mercy of you fine folks. Any help you could provide would be great.

I could also use some help on identifying the exact causes of some of the problems the gun has, how those problems can be fixed and recommendations for individuals who could complete the work. However I will post these questions in the technicana forum.

Respectfully,
Kevin

1204 A
Pat'd Aug . 1 1905
Oct . 17 . 1905 - Jan . 18 . 1908
Krupp Fluid Steel Made By
A H Fox Gun Co. Phila. PA

what is your first question? Its definitely an early A grade, very early! Most of the first 10,000 cards are missing.

As for mechanical work, there are lots of great smiths out there other than Turnbull, and though most are very happy with his work, he can be a little pricey. State your issues in the technicana forum and I bet ppl here might be able to help you figure out your issues.

Welcome and hope you learn a lot here, I have.

Gun looks good from the pic I like the straight grip. What do you want to have done to the gun it looks good?

The third patent date is actually Jan. 16, 1906, No. 810046 granted to Ansley H. Fox for the guns rotary bolt. Oct. 17, 1905, is Patent No. 801862, granted to Ansley H. Fox, and covers the lock mechanism of the Ansley H. Fox gun. The first date, Aug. 1, 1905, is for Patent No. 796119, also granted to Ansley H. Fox. It covers the rotary bolt for the Philadelphia Arms Co. Fox shotgun, but was granted after Ansley had left Philadelphia Arms Co. and founded his new A.H. Fox Gun Co. with premisis at the corner of Wayne and Bristol Streets.

Looks like old 1204 was in pretty rough shape and the attempt to improve/restore it was at best misguided. My bet would be it was left in a case in a damp environment and the metal rusted, and was then poorly polished up and refinished with out any attempt to actually deal with the rust pitting. The wood doesn't ;look too bad. While the checlering on the wood is worn down and appears to have been finished over, with a reasonable expenditure it could look a lot better then it does now. While as a family heirloom it is wonderful to have that gun, the cost for a proper restoration will be far more then a 12-gauge A-Grade is worth in the marketplace.

I wonder what fire Callahan is talking about? Anyone know anything about a fire at A.H. Fox Gun Co.?

There was a fire at the Savage factory at some point that resulted in the loss of many of the early Savage records but I have no idea when or if that had result on the Fox cards.

Kevin: Tellus where you are located and perhaps we can recommend someone to restore your Fox that would be affordable.

Welcome & Best Regards, George

Thank you everyone for the responses so far.

My first question is can you distinguish any of the characteristics of the gun from the serial number? The barrels are 26" and the stock has a straight grip. I'm curious as to whether they are originial. Also, is this possibly the 1204th gun ever made by Fox?

Researcher you are correct on your assessments of the gun. While I am very fond of it, much of the sentimental value the gun should have is not there. Primarily because my great grandfather didn't think enough of his purchase to take care of it and it seemed to be nothing but an afterthought for my grandfather. The gun was given to me wrapped in packing foam and tape. The bottom rib had peeled back and was tangled in a snarl of foam and tape. Screws were missing, wood was scratched and cracked and the gun likely had not been put together in decades. I was both elated and very sad when my grandfather first showed it to me. I hoped then to ultimately have a gun that was mechanically sound enough to shoot. I had no immediate plans to hire a gunsmith because I believed the cost to be more than I should realistically spend at my income level. However the gun was absconded last year by my father in law who was thoughtful enough to take on my future project. He enlisted a local gunsmith with 30 years of good reputation and invested a nearly a year and who knows how much money trying to get a shooter. While the gun looks significantly better, the gunsmith was unable to complete many of the tasks set before him. The roadblock that caused him to give up midstream was the bottom rib. No matter what he tried, he couldn't get the new rib to bond to the barrels. In addition to the problems Researcher or I have mentioned, the front trigger will cock but won't snap.

Thank you George. I live in Jupiter Florida, about 15 miles north of West Palm Beach.

Kevin,

I don't personally know of any "good" smiths in FL and some may exist but I think you could send the gun out and get it fixed for a reasonable amount of money. Rib replacement/ setting is something that should be left up to a really really good double gun smith... I would personally recommend that you contact Dewey Vicknair at http://www.vicknairrestorations.com/Vic ... _Home.html or Steven dodd hughes.

I really think you could get this gun back to shooting condition for a reasonable amount of money. It would take a bit more money to "make the gun look right."

As for originality, 26" barrels are rare that early... a good way to check its originality would be to check the chokes... fairly full chokes would be a good thing but really you need to measure how long the chokes are (originally they would have been 3-4+") and then having the bores measured. The bores should be likely be .729" or less and it seems most were a fair bit less at closer to .722 or so.

You REALLY need to go to a good SxS smith such as mentioned above or the few others that exist and I honestly think you can get your gun up and running for a reasonable amount of money and will find your investment will be well worth it. You have a very early and neat version of a Fox SxS! Good luck!!