Fox Collectors

Over the weekend I was fortunate to fulfill my desire to obtain a 20 ga Sterlingworth to be used as a shooter. However, the gun has two issues---- 1), it's at least a 90% gun, unmolested, and is really too nice to be taken in the field, and 2) is choked entirely too tight for what I intend to use it for (F/XF).
Here's my dilemma---- Will I devalue the gun if I have the chokes opened to IC/M so I can use it for upland game? It's an early 1929 gun, 28" tubes with #2 weight barrels. I paid market value for a near pristine gun and don't want to devalue it if I open the chokes. Spreader loads are not an option, as I don't reload and factory spreaders are simply too expensive. FWIW, I have a fairly extensive collection of small-gauge doubles that I can use that are choked for my intended use, but I have owned S/W's before and shoot them better than any other vintage doubles in my collection.
What say you--- make it a "closet queen" or open the chokes?

I am by no means "learned" and am a shooter first, collector second, so here's my 2 cents.

First you need to decide if you want the gun to stay pristine. If you do then IMHO the gun will be a safe queen as when I use a gun to hunt I accept the fact that sooner or later I'll scratch/ding the stock/barrels. Doesn't mean I'll use one of my Foxes in a driving rain storm but I do/will use them for hunting. Kinda like owning a genuine 1966 Shelby 427 Cobra. I might not drive it to work everyday, but I am gonna drive it, selectively.

Bottom line. You own the gun, modify/use it to please you, not a future owner.

Congrats on the new purchase.

Mike

Look at it this way...it will be more valuable to you if you have the chokes opened. And if you do have the chokes opened the gun will probably have more appeal to a broader market than a gun choked F/XF.

You asked for opinions so here's mine...I would not alter a 90%(+) survivor....ESPECIALLY a 20ga. In my opinion a 20 with F & XF is pretty darn neat and usual. Yeah, its a gun that would have select application...not so hot for NE pa'tridge but what a hoot for big pheasants if ya let 'em get out a few yards.

I guess I've seen truckload of M&F guns so opening one of those would be a little less painful....I still go back to the condition survivor thing...on a smallbore.

I do believe it will effect value to many collectors....how much is once again opinion.

Bottom line, if you really like the gun and dont mind puting wear or it ( like MC said it's inevitable) and want to alter it for your hunting/shooting enjoyment by all means have at it!!...it's yours.

Respectfully, tjw

Not being a handloader doesnt preclude spreader loads. Polywad sells them, loaded, in common shot sizes at reasonable prices. How may boxes a year are you gonna shoot in a hunting season???

As far as opening chokes, well, get someone to do it right or dont do it . Mike Orlen is good. i ahve used him in the past.

Sterlys are nice guns for using. I have bought and osld a bunch of them. Never have not bought one becuase of the choking; too loose or too tight. And neither has anyone said "hey, this should be full and x full, its only mod and IC; sorry i dont want it. " When you buy a double you are buying th ebarrles. That means uncut barrels. I just picke dup aN ae 20 WITH 26 " cyl & cyl barrels. They letter as 26" and the chokes were opened. Doesnt bother me a bit. great early season chokes for partridge in NY.

Maybe if it was a graded gun, you might think before opening, but me, its a SW, so I would make it so i could use it.

Now, cutting a stock, thats a whole nother story!!!

I wouldnt alter the gun. as marshfellow observed, the F/XF is an unusual combination, and doesnt seem to come along all that often, be interesting to get a letter for it. there are alot of opened up guns out there, maybe one with open chokes and still 90% condition; another will come along, or a trade may be worked. Even though its a only Sterlingworth, it is somewhat unusual (F/XF), and sounds to be in great condition, so yes, opening the chokes from original will lower the resale value, no question. Anyway, just my two cents....

Sterlingworths are great guns. Small bore Sterlingworths are really nice. I have several myself but a 90% gun is not a collector quality gun that should be pampered and never taken to the fields and woods. After all gun, no matter what grade (With the exception of some specialty presentation and exhibition guns) were built to be used and enjoyed. As far as altering the chokes I would shoot a number of patterns with different ammunition, you may be surprised what you see on the paper.

One other question. (not trying to nit pick but you didn’t mention how you measured the chokes to come to the conclusion they were full and x-full.

Where the chokes measured with a precision device or was a brass or similar choke gauge used to come up with the determination that they are full and x-full?
This has some relevance; if they weren’t measured with a micrometer type gauge, you should have them measured, diameter of the muzzle i snot the true indicator, its the relationship between the bore diameter and the choke diameter.

Get true measurements of bore diameter and inside muzzles to see how many thousandths of constriction each has. This will give you a truer indication of what the chokes are. Then pattern them with different loads as others have mentioned.
Just another 2 cents.

"Learned opinions, please" I don't know about "learned'" but here is what I think . . . .

. . . I would leave the gun as is. On those occasions when conditions are favorable, use the gun with those spreader loads. Unmolested nicer condition small bores are getting harder to find. Even Sterlingworths. You have a good one.

Jolly

Thanks to all for your advice. I talked to a friend of mine (in addition to your comments), and he advised me to leave the chokes as-is, emphasizing that a 28" 20 choked F/XF has to be somewhat rare.
So--- the only Fox I own will be relegated to keeping company with my Elsies in the vault, with an occasional trip to the dove field for the high flyers !
BTW, I patterned it at 30 yds, and a gnat doesn't have a prayer !

How about some pictures? I'd enjoy some shots of a small bore Fox at 90% - even if it is "only a Sterlingworth"

Laxcoach, you didn't mention what game you hunt but generally a full choke 20 gauge will have the same pellet distribution (pellets per in^2) as a modified choke in 12 gauge. That's with regular field loads in each gauge, and the same shot size. I have hunted with gents who are up tight with full choke 20's but are happy with modified choke 12's.

Another way to look at this: let's say you're getting 75% patterns with F or XF chokes in your 20 gauge at 40 yards. 75% of 7/8 ounce load in a 20 gauge is a lot less pellets than 75% of a 1-1/8 ounce field load in 12 gauge. That of course is with the same size shot in each.

Now, if you drop one shot size in the 20 gauge, i.e., use 6's instead of 7-1/2's for instance, you'll get an even sparser distribution/less peppering of the game - which would equate to having a more open choke in the 20 gauge. Side benefit of the larger diameter 6 shot is increased penetration.

I know this is not conventional thinking but what I'm saying is, you can usually "work around" having tight chokes in a smallbore for upland game shooting. Just my opinion of course. Silvers

Silvers,
In answer to your question, I intended to use it primarily for doves and my annual trip for grouse in Wisconsin. Field loads (7/8 oz) in #8's early in the season, then #7-1/2's later when the migrant birds arrive, and 1oz 7-1/2's for grouse. Of course, this gun is too tightly choked for grouse. In lieu of opening the chokes, I've decided to open the chokes on a 16 Ideal (now F/F) that I own and suffer with the extra weight while grouse hunting.
As I mentioned earlier, the S/W will still get a workout on the high fliers in the dove field !

My 30" 20ga was F & F when I got it. It's currently LM/IM and destined for some additional changes. There's even a slim chance it could be SK/M someday. I'm pretty sure the next owner will appreciate it regardless, but I really don't care.