Fox Collectors

At an area gun show this past weekend, I looked at several 12 gauge side-by doubles in the $1200-1400 range. I found a Sterlingworth with 28" barrels, double triggers and extractors in very good condition, original buttplate replaced by a well installed black solid Olde English pad, correct LOP, Galazan brass plug choke gauge showed Mod. right barrel, Full on the Left- no tool marks, safety, triggers, all mechanicals are fine- I almost bought it when the dealer went to an even $1100 cash, and I believe he is legit, as he said he would need to execute the 4473 BATF form and a NICS check, which is not a problem for me.

However, I also found from another dealer a pre-Marlin Hunter Arms Field Grade LC Smith with both ejectors and the Hunter One Trigger. As this is the Fox forum and NOT the Smith or Parker forum, I won't belabor the point, but that dealer lowered his asking price from $1500 to $1200, and that Smith also has the 28" barrels (Armor steel) choked identically to the Sterlingworth, and it is a FW series, somewhat lighter than the Fox.

I would like either gun for pheasants over my GSP "Rommel", I know the Smiths sometimes develop cracks in the buttstock near the rear of the lock plates, this gun like the Fox, was near Mint as to the wood and barrel blue, both had lost some of the case colours on the receiver(s).

I have also heard that Smith single triggers can be troublesome. I dry fired both guns with A-Zoom snap caps, on the Smith the selector works perfectly and the ejectors are in time, on the Fox, trigger pulls are crisp and the extractor lifted the snap caps when I broke open the gun. Both have top levers to the right of dead center when the gun(s) were closed.

So, decision time. If I buy the Smith, then I'll pass on the Fox Sterlingworth, and vice versa. Any insight without demeaning the fine lads on the Smith website would be appreciated.

I believe the cachet on Sterlingworths leans towards the Philadelphia mfg. series as having higher market value, but I am buying a double to hunt birds with, not as a pure outright investment. I had also read that the stock configurations on the Utica mfg. Foxes had less drop and the gun had less downpitch or drop, is this true? Thanks for the help.

I wouldn't have a Hunter One Trigger on the place! For my Pheasant hunting I like the instant selectivity of two triggers on my old Fox bird gun.

L.C. Smiths are fine guns but they're not a Fox. If you prefer a sidelock with single trigger & ejectors, then buy the Smith. If you want a fine gun that will last several lifetimes and a boxlock with double triggers & extractors suits you then most definitely buy the Fox, "THE FINEST GUN IN THE WORLD"

Just My Humble Opinion, George

I think your last paragraph is the hook. The options on the LC of ejectors and Hunter One Trigger make it collectible but if you are looking for a delightful hunting shotgun that wont let you down buy the Fox.

Good luck.

Buy the Fox.
You cant go wrong.
Buy lots of Foxes. Once you buy the 12 you have to buy the 20.

I have an Elsie and Sterlingworth in same configurations as you state and prefer the Fox hands down. I agree that the Hunter One trigger would send me running to the Sterly.

Bri-

that made me laugh out loud!!!!....you're right!

Smiths are fine guns as well, provided you don't want to shoot them a lot with heavy loads ( those that generate heavy recoil). I've owned a few Smiths over the years and have shot them quite a bit on sporting courses with 1 ounce loads @ 1125-1150 fps, and haven't had any stock problems. In recent years I make it a point to shoot loads generating ~7,000 psi and altho that doesn't translate to recoil, it is a parameter that older Smiths were designed for - same as older Foxes. I've also owned two Elsies with Hunter One triggers and they both worked just fine. IMO the Hunter trigger got a bad rap in part because people have fudged with them over the years. Bottom line - I'd buy the Fox but Smiths can be a nice addition for a switch once in a while. PS I like your GSP's name Rommel. Our redtick is named der Kaiser. Silvers

An addition to Brian's comment on the 20. That should be 20s, as in more than one. They are addictive, right guys?

Mike

I almost forgot, yio must get the trinity of Sterlingworths. Love those 16 Ga Foxes.

There are reasons why we are Fox fans. My first restoration project was an L.C. Smith that just need to be restocked. Once you take one apart and see how thin the internal wood is you will turn into a Fox fan also.

Don't get me wrong they are wonderful guns with a strong following, and a romance about side locks and history. But not for me. I always worry it's only a matter of time before they crack. If you want a gun to use buy the fox.

As for Brian's comment what is really funny is, "I bought my first 20 ga from him!"

Brian welcome back almost. I look forward to buying more and more foxes too.

Germantown wrote:I believe the cachet on Sterlingworths leans towards the Philadelphia mfg. series as having higher market value, but I am buying a double to hunt birds with, not as a pure outright investment. I had also read that the stock configurations on the Utica mfg. Foxes had less drop and the gun had less downpitch or drop, is this true? Thanks for the help.

I believe you'll find that the Utica guns typically will have more contemporary stock dimensions and chamber lengths; I have them in 20, 16 and 12, and all have 2-1/2 - 2-5/8" DAH and 2-3/4" chambers. While it's true that collectors may prefer Philly guns, as hunting arms I do not think you will find much difference in quality or price between Utica and Philly Sterlys.

I've never owned a Smith, but as someone who has spent much time afield with these old Utica guns, I don't think you'll be sorry for choosing the Fox. JMHO.

I have had many Elsie's over the years but never kept one long. The Lard trigger is ok unless someone untrained trys to work on it. I have done a few restocks on Smiths because of the tendency to crack at the tangs but more behind the lock plates. {I don't do them anymore.} The ejectors may be of the old type that require compressing springs when the gun is closed even if it wasn't fired. This not only makes it hard to close, but is hard on the Knuckle. Now you take the Fox and you have 1. styling similar to a Parker,2. the locking mechanism of a Smith, 3. the coil springs of a Winchester 21. There ain't no flies on Krupp or Chromox either. SOOOOOO! if you want a reliable gun to shoot the willie's out of with no problems, buy the Fox! If ejectors are a thing for you save your sheckels till you can swing one like that. Lot's of luck! Lee.