Fox Collectors

Hi all. I'm a member of the L.C. Smith Club and thought I should branch out with a Fox. I purchased a Fox Sterlingworth over the weekend to start the process. I'm retired military so don't have deep pockets so starting low. I have several questions already. This is a 12 ga, 26" barrels, single trigger, beaver tail, 2 ivory beads, Jostram anti-flinch pad, ejectors and a 1/2 pistol grip. I learned all that on this site. LOL. I haven't had the chokes measured, yet. It was dropped off at the gunsmith for take apart, and cleaning, etc. What model is this? A special order stock on a "Brush" or perhaps even "Skeet' or is it more likely a "DeLuxe"? See how a little knowledge gets dangerous real fast... My second question relates to it's serial number. It is within the last thirty 12 gauges made. Does this add to it's interest, or just a so what? Lastly the condition is not so good. No case coloring on the outside, and very thin blue on barrel. The wood has been polyurethaned. Mechanically it seems just fine. Thanks in advance for any input. Jim..

How are the barrels marked. That will tell us a bit as will the s/n.

Welcome aboard! Sounds like an interesting gun. We'd like to see some pictures.

If it has a half-pistol grip on a Fox-Sterlingworth I'd be 99 and 44/100 percent sure its a replacement stock. But on a very high serial number gun, who knows what they may have been "cleaning up." Sterlingworths came with a full pistol grip stock. Every A.H. Fox Gun Co. catalogue that carries the Sterlingworth from 1911 to 1929 states -- "THE STOCK is best quality plain American Walnut, thoroughly seasoned, nicely checkered on grip and forend. Full capped pistol grip only." Savage era catalogues don't say, but always show a full pistol grip either capped or capless. The only exception being the Fox-Sterlingworth Skeet & Upland Game Gun which had a straight grip.

From my two decades of observing and recording Sterlingworth serial numbers I've found that 12-gauge serial numbers seem to end in the high 143xxx range and then there are guns in the 160xxx and 161xxx range. All of the guns I've recorded in the 160xxx and 161xxx range have 26-inch barrels except for a two-barrel set which has both 26- and 28-inch barrels. Nine of the 12 guns I've recorded in the 160xxx range are Fox-Sterlingworth Skeet & Upland Game Guns. The very highest serial number guns I've recorded are one of the oddball Fox-Sterlingworths built on the flat-sided SP-frame and a drawbolt frame gun.



Drawbolt frame gun, 161515

Right barrel marked "Special Alloy-----Special Steel".. Left one marked "Savage Arms Corporation, Utica, NY, USA/ Proof Tested---12 Gauge-----2 3/4 inch chamber---"
SN is 161520.

I read another post by you discussing a 16 gauge that you use for all except Turkey & ducks. Last winter I bought my first double. An Elsie 16 gauge, Field, with chokes of Full and Extra full. I used it on my spring turkey hunts sucessfully in both KY and NY. The KY gobbler went down hard at 20 paces and the NY took both barrels at 55 paces, and went down like a sack of potatoes. That's with a 16 gauge.. The NY bird totally fooled me as to distance due to a rise between us. I wouldn't normally shoot at any animal with a shotgun at that distance, knowingly. I figured him at 35, but my brother made me pace it off because he didn't believe my estimate of 35. LOL. The second barrel was at a flying turkey, after the first barrel took off enough feathers to stuff a pillow. He went down immediately. The ammo was Western 1 1/8 oz #6, 2 3/4" paper shells. (SX16H6).. So reconsider that 16 for Turkey. Sure carries easy. Jim..

Researcher. Please first let me say thanks for all your info that I have had the pleasure of reading, both here and on the Elsie forum. Your knowledge should be published in book form.
Now to my Fox. It is a 1/2 pistol grip looking at this forum's pix showing different guns. Mine matches the 1/2 pistol photo. I will have the gunsmith look at the stock when he gets it apart for a SN. I will be surprised if it is a replacement, but sure won't argue with you until then. LOL . Everything on the gun that I could check has the original sn including the forearm. Both on the wood and on the metal. Increase your list of highest sn's recorded, as this one is 161520. I'll be sending out two checks this week. One for a "letter", and the other for membership here. Thanks for you input- It's greatly appreciated. I may try the gun this spring on Turkey, depending on the chokes. In closing, I note we both live in WA. Maybe we could meet for coffee or something in the future. Regards, Jim... ps: When I figure out how to post pix, I'll send you a couple I took before it went to the smith.

Researcher if that is a "drawbolt" Brush model you picture in your response to me, then that's what I have. If the key is the screw head showing in the back strap immediately behind the safty--- Bingo that's what I have. I looked up the picture of the different SW's and the one shown as 1939 Brush (one of last ones) matches my gun, including the 1/2 pistol stock ??? thanks. Jim...

Researcher. I see the difference between the full pistol and 1/2 pistol. It's the degree of curvature of the grip. I stand corrected, finally. It is a full pistol grip, as you said. Oh well as I said earlier. A little knowledge..... Jim

Jim C,

Welcome. interested to see pictures of your gun.

Yes. Glad you got the grips figured out. If your gun has ejectors it is only the second drawbolt gun I've heard of with ejectors. Tom Kidd did an article on Drawbolt Fox-Sterlingworths in The Double Gun Journal, Volume Eight, Issue 1. My two-part series on Sterlingworths is in Volume Fifteen, Issues 3 and 4, with some corrections and one more picture, curtesy of Larry Brown in Volume Sixteen, Issue 2.

If we meet half-way for coffee it would have to be in Moses Lake!! I live 19 miles ENE of Spokane.



What I refer to as the Savage-era capless full pistol grip.



Typical A.H. Fox half-pistol grip.

Photos I snapped before it went to gunsmiith. Nothing great. I'll take and post better upon it's return. [img]http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu19 ... xSW009.jpg[/IMG]

For some reason one photo didn't come out, even though it showed on Preview????.

Nice. Is the single trigger selective or non? Also, is that just light reflection or is that recoil pad leather-faced? That forearm is not really a beavertail, just the "bulky" later Savage-style forearm.



Full beavertail forearm on a 1936-vintage 16-gauge Fox-Sterlingworth Deluxe Ejector Field.

Thanks, again Researcher. It is a single selective trigger. If you look closely at the photo showing the side view of the action, just above the letter opener holding the gun up, you can see the selector button. As to the pad, there is no leather on it. Well, for a newbie, I guess I'd grade, maybe a C. Out of 8 descriptions I gave 6 were OK. LOL. A different question The middle ivory bead is broken off at the surface, and the front ivory bead is 1/2 it's original width. I see a company called Ivory Shotgun Beads offers a generic replacement set. Would you go that route or leave as is? Or try to find an original set? I'm not sure what my intentions are with this gun, keep it to shoot, along with the 16 ga Elsie, or just let it become another "closet queen" in my safe. or sell it to a collector, if it has collector value. I'll make that decision after it comes back from the gunsmiths and I know, chokes, etc. Regards, Jim...

Researcher: [i]If it has a half-pistol grip on a Fox-Sterlingworth I'd be 99 and 44/100 percent sure its a replacement stock.[/i]

An alternative in that 0.56 sample would be my SW 20 ga (254xxx)- when I had an extended Galazan Best Orange pad put on the gun, I also had the smith carve off the pistol grip to give me a POW grip. Checkering matches the Fox pattern. I do not care for a PG on an upland gun.

Researcher. Can you lead me in the right direction to try and secure a copy of the DGJ articles you referred to? Either original magazines or copies of the pertinent articles.
Also to correct another stupid mistake. The company that offers the Ivory beads is Galazan's, not ivory bead Co. When I found them I placed them on my "favorites" list to make it easier to get back to. The computer picked it up as "ivory beads". When I referred back for name when responding to you, it showed up as "ivory beads". Without thinking I just copied the name Mr. Dell supplied me. I guess things like that is why I often needed a whole battalion of men to watch over my backside. Jim..