BARRELS NOT GUARANTEED-SEE TAG

[Researcher]

I thumbed through the pictures of twenty Philadelphia Super-Fox barrel flats that I've saved. I find the BARRELS NOT GUARANTEED-SEE TAG roll-stamp, or vestiges thereof, on 15 of the 16 from 27814 to my gun 32526. The next I have a picture of is 32557 and from there on up no roll-stamp. Still waiting for someone to come up with that TAG!!

[Foxnut]

I have never seen the tag or copy/print of said tag!!

[eightbore]

Dave, was the guarantee message stamped on 20 gauge Super Foxes? If so, what was the guarantee that was stated?

[loggy]

Eightbore, I have an HE20 with the stamp. The script is so small that I had not noticed it before. John

[eightbore]

Thanks.

[jolly bill]

Dave, was the guarantee message stamped on 20 gauge Super Foxes? If so, what was the guarantee that was stated?

Here's another HE20 with the marking. This one is SN'ed 202290. The one Loggy/John posted a picture of is 202292.

[eightbore]

What, exactly, were HE 20's guaranteed or not guaranteed to do? I don't have a selection of Fox catalogs and there isn't much information in the book. The serial number list, although interesting, is about it.

[ROMAC]

Originally when they first came out with the HE, the advertising of the day said they were guaranteed to hold a certain percentage pattern at a certain distance. I have that information somewhere but from the top of my head I think it was something like 85% etc....
It became too difficult during production to make every gun pattern to such a high standard so they dropped the boastful claim and started to mark them "Barrels not Guaranteed". A lot of people think it means they are seconds or in some way second quality, which they are not.

edit: Reacher said this about 4 years ago "The catalog text states "All guns will be bored full choke, with a guaranteed pattern of from 80 to 85 per cent., with shells recommended for this gun. Other boring will be furnished if specified."

[loggy]

Jolly, Your picture wins. Nice work! John

[jolly bill]

Jolly, Your picture wins. Nice work! John

That's from using locally made (Rochester, NY) Kodak film.

Just kidding John. Standard digital stuff. Kodak doesn't make much film anymore, sadly.

Jolly

[eightbore]

Anything different for the 20 gauge than the "80 to 85 percent" guaranteed for the 12 gauge?

[Researcher]

Other than the existence of the 20-gauge nothing specifically about it is mentioned in the catalogs. The Super-Fox first appears in the 1924, 40 page "A Fox Gets the Game" pocket catalog --

From the 1925 "Wood Grain" pocked catalog --

1926 --

1927 --

The Super-Fox from the 1927 "Have a Healthy Hobby" folder --

From the 1928 to 1930 "Wood Grain" catalog --

Thumbing thru the 1923 and 1925 Super-Fox booklets all the patterns appear to be from 12-gauges. The 1925 adds the line "Made in 12- and 20-gauge" to the cover and has the 20-gauge listed in the specs on page 19.

[Researcher]

The Godshalks must have been more interested in auto accessories, golf equipment, fishing reels, etc. They certainly didn't very aggressively push the Super-Fox. The big color ad on the back cover of the August 1923 National Sportsman kicked things off --

But things dropped off after that. By that time the A.H. Fox Gun Co. was only running magazine ads in the fall. The ads A.H. Fox Gun Co. ran in September 1923 don't even mention the Super-Fox, but those in October and November do. In 1924, the September and November ads just mention the Super-Fox in passing but the November 1924 ad is a Super-fox ad --

Same for 1925 and 26. November was Super-Fox ad month with this ad --

For 1927, 1928 and 1929 the ads were all for the new factory and the lower priced, $36.50, Sterlingworth.

Savage ran a few Super-Fox ads in 1930 --

The few Super-Fox magazine ads certainly weren't pushing the 20-gauge!!

[Researcher]

Serial number 32549 has shown up on GI and it doesn't have BARRELS NOT GUARANTEED-SEE TAG line.

[eightbore]

Dave, thanks for the great ads. It seems that the 80-85% claims extended to the 20 gauges from the beginning to the 1930 ad.