Fox Collectors

Here's some pictures of my Christmas present to myself this year. Some of you have asked about this gun. I shoot all my guns and I have been looking for a C grade small bore for about three years now and finally took the plunge on this one. Here's my take on it. This is no closet queen, when you view the pictures you will see this is apparent. The specifics are 26" .014,.016 4" tapers, dac 1 1/2'' dah 2 3/8" lop 13 1/2" to the end of the wood, she is dead on @ 5 1/2lbs, great bores, locks up tight on face, ejectors timed perfectly, mechanically sound, born in 1924 if I'm reading the charts correctly.

The down side is the seller said it had a no-shock pad on it that was in bad shape and he removed it and threw it away. I wonder about this story because he didn't tell me about the slip-on pad that she has obviously been wearing most her life. Their is some wood dents in both the stock and forearm but no cracks or gouges.

Now comes the hard part for me. I've sent off for a letter and won't do a thing to it until I see how she was shipped. But because of the slip-on pad that has dis-colored the finish I'm up against the wall of what to do. Do I just try and clean the finish and say she is what she is, or do I do a refinish and raise the dents to bring her back to all her splendor? Decisions, Decisions! Maybe some of you have some tricks for cleaning her up?

Those initials are WWD? I guess you are hoping the name comes up on your Callahan letter. A reproduction NoShoc pad is now, finally, available. Galazan is selling it.

Dead on 5 pounds sounds awefully light to me. The lightest weight Fox I've ever put on the scales was a straight grip 28-inch CE-Grade 20-gauge that went 5 pounds 6 ounces. Pre WW-I the catalogues offered graded 20-gauge guns as light as 5 1/4 pounds, but beginning with the 1919 catalogue that was upped to 5 1/2 pounds.

Headrick shows a 5 1/4 pound BE-Grade in his article in The Double Gun Journal, Volume Fifteen, Issue 4, pages 82 to 95. Its production card has the remarks on the back --"strike 3-4 oz off bbls" and "Bore out stock 2-3 oz."

I was hoping the initials would turn out to be William "Wild Bill" Donovan of OSS fame, but I checked and his middle initial is J.

FRBRIT: That is a very sweet gun, congratulations!!

Very, very nice. Wish that was my workbench it was sitting on! Speaking of pads. Has anyone purchased one of Galazan's no shoc pads? Opinions? What about a Jostam pad? Any ideas/suggestions?

Mike

Researcher you caught me in a typo the gun is 5 1/2 lbs and of course this is without a pad. Sorry

Boy am I hoping the initials show up on the Callahan letter, I have a straight gripped CE-12 that has a name engraved on the trigger guard that lettered as being ordered by the gentleman in 1914. I think it would be great to have two CE's that letter like this.

The bench has a bunch of family history to it. My grandfather bought an old bowling alley and made a bench for his ornamental iron shop out of it. He covered it with heavy gauge sheet metal so it would hold up to the blacksmith shop. The bench was Hugh so when I went to do something with it, I removed the sheet stock to find this great piece of laminated wood under it. I cut it down some, did a re-glue job on it, made the new frame and did a complete finish job on it about fifteen years ago. I did leave some of the heritage in though, some of the burn marks from the hot iron are still there.

Paul

Paul, as a suggestion, pull the stock, give her a good cleaning/rub down with some 0000 wool and mineral spirits. Then apply tru oil, linseed oil, etc and see how it looks. This would also be a good time to check the inside of the stock for cracks. Just my thoughts if I was the lucky owner of this beauty.

Mike

I see in my latest CSMC catalogue that they are now offering a repro of the NOSHOC pad, but it must be a big one as they list 3 1/4" screw hole spacing. The NOS supply of NOSHOCs I'm hording have 3" and 3 1/8" spacing.

The repro Winchester pad they advertise as having a 3 1/8" spacing, and they are the same pad as a NOSHOC so maybe that 3 1/4" is a typo.

Nice Gun. That should be fast on quail.
On guns like this I try and wait for the letter befor I do anything also.
Keep us posted.
Thanks for the pic's
Jess

French,

First, I am be no means suggesting that you do not have a bonified CE grade, but I am interested to know if anyone might agree that the action/frame may have started out life (in the shop) as something of the SW variety. Does anyone find the SW-like border around the pins (hammer, sear and hinge) to be, as they say on Sesame Street, "not like the other"? The border around the hinge pin is less obvious on the right side, but there nonetheless. Please don't take it as a criticism. I think it makes a unique statement. After all we all know what they all are on the inside.

Could the butt area under the slip-on just be "dulled" per say rather than discolored? If so, then MC's advice would be spot on in my book. Bring the finish of the rest of the butt down with the steel wool and then build the whole back up.

I wish I was as bold and frankly as flush as you around this holiday. If I was, I think I would have done the same as you and then wrapped it for under the tree. Congratulations!

Shoot straight,

Bird

Bird,
I am not sure I follow you about the lines around the pins but here is a photo of my 1915 16 gauge ordered as a "Special with C grade embellisments" per the Callahan letter.
Other than the light on the images I don't see much differance around the pins.
Or maybe I am missing what you are point out. Is this what you mean?
Just curious.
Jess

I can't take credit for the advice as Mike Campbell offered it in another post I read. I still think the pull and check for cracks would be a good idea and would allow some hands on fun with the new gun while waiting for the letter. I pulled my 16 ga apart today to do a clean & shine and discovered a crack inside the stock just above the hole for the auto-safety rod. No external indications of the crack. I did check the CSMC site and the nochoc pads are listed as 5 5/15 x 1 3/4, 7/8 overall depth, with hole spacing 3 1/16. Think I'll order one next week.

Mike

I see said the ignorant...

Birdawg,

I see the same SW-type sawtooth edging around the pins on your gun as well. After reviewing McIntosh, I think I see it on the Utica CE on pg 130 and definitely see it on the Philly CE's on pgs 258 and 259.

I apologize for my ignorance. I have never handled one of this grade and up until now have not inspected the pictures in McIntosh closely enough to detect it. Appears to be standard treatment/"embellishment".

Thanks!

Shoot straight,

Bird

Very nice. Thats the style I want, I have a capped PG 20 CE and wanted a half pistol. oh well. when I find a half PG I will most likely trade it off.
They sure are sweet.

Just curious guy's. No one has made comment on the last picture. I included it to see if anyone else thinks that the marks are the reminisce of a #4 barrel stamping. The reason I'm questioning it is the location of it. It's up by the forearm latch and not in front of the barrel flats where I see most of them. Anyone see one this far forward before?