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English Proofs
Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 11:43 am
by MIGrouse
Does anyone know if Fox exported / shipped guns directly to England? I an looking at purchasing a CE grade that has English proofs on the barrel.
Re: English Proofs
Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 3:12 pm
by Foxnut
Steve,
I can’t answer if they directly imported them but in the past we have seen a number of Foxes w/English proof marks. I was in Louisville for the gun show in mid-February and observed a 12 ga. BE w/28” barrels with English nitro proof marks. I can’t remember if I recorded the serial number or not. Good luck!!
Re: English Proofs
Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 4:43 pm
by Researcher
I have seen a couple of Ansley H. Fox doubles with English proofs and a friend at one time had a nice DE-Grade with French proofs that the last I saw of it it was being offered for sale by Herschel Chadick, so that was some time ago. Tom Kidd did an article on a 20-gauge CE 200316 that went to England in
The Double Gun Journal, Volume Six, Issue 4, pages 47 to 53, but he shows no pictures of the barrel flats or watertable to show any proof marks.
Most of the production cards I've seen for Ansley H. Fox guns going "out CONUS" are to L.H. Hagen in Norway, so many that they got their own engraving patterns for the A-grades they got.
See the January 2011 Card of the Month and the April 2021 Card of the Month. They often ordered no engraving on the barrels. The middle gun of three XE-Grade 12-gauges Hagen ordered recently surfaced in Norway on one of the other gun boards. It has been out there in the world, not languishing in a gun safe --
A lot of guns also went to our territories, Martin Kohn in Havana, Cuba and Squires Bingham in the Philippines.
Re: English Proofs
Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 11:03 pm
by Woodcocker
There is a way to date Birmingham proof marks after 1923 I think it is. There are little letters in the tik tack toe like proofmark which tell the inspector and the years. The books showing all the various proofs of the world will have an explanation. I think I still have this book myself. So if you know that date of the gun you can see when it went to England for proof. Also more modern proofs in BAR and such will be after the 1980s.
Re: English Proofs
Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 8:17 am
by Stan Hillis
This is my 12 ga. Philly Sterlingworth Ejector. The gun went to English proof (London) but I have not determined when, possibly it was when the chambers were lengthened to a full 2 3/4", as indicated by the proof marks.
Another puzzling thing about it is the "2550T" stamping on the underside of the left barrel.
Edited to add: In further looking into the date of the proof marks on the Sterly E, and the combination of them, I believe the proofing was done during the 1954 - 1989 time frame.
Re: English Proofs
Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 9:07 am
by vaturkey
Researcher wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 4:43 pm
I have seen a couple of Ansley H. Fox doubles with English proofs and a friend at one time had a nice DE-Grade with French proofs that the last I saw of it it was being offered for sale by Herschel Chadick, so that was some time ago. Tom Kidd did an article on a 20-gauge CE 200316 that went to England in
The Double Gun Journal, Volume Six, Issue 4, pages 47 to 53, but he shows no pictures of the barrel flats or watertable to show any proof marks.
Most of the production cards I've seen for Ansley H. Fox guns going "out CONUS" are to L.H. Hagen in Norway, so many that they got their own engraving patterns for the A-grades they got.
23623 02.jpg
See the January 2011 Card of the Month and the April 2021 Card of the Month. They often ordered no engraving on the barrels. The middle gun of three XE-Grade 12-gauges Hagen ordered recently surfaced in Norway on one of the other gun boards. It has been out there in the world, not languishing in a gun safe --
25034 06.JPG
A lot of guns also went to our territories, Martin Kohn in Havana, Cuba and Squires Bingham in the Philippines.
Super nice
Re: English Proofs
Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 11:05 am
by Researcher
Stan, have you gotten a letter on your Sterlingworth to see where it went originally?
Re: English Proofs
Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 1:34 pm
by Stan Hillis
No, I haven't Dave.
Re: English Proofs
Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2023 6:04 pm
by MIGrouse
Below is a picture of the barrel flats of the shotgun I am looking at. Hopefully you can read the proof marks.
Re: English Proofs
Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 7:02 am
by Stan Hillis
Nitro proof, done in Birmingham for 2 1/2" loads at 3 tons, or 8,960 psi (618 BAR), according to Burrard's formula for converting to psi.
Re: English Proofs
Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2023 5:29 pm
by bryanemch
Here is the card for my 32 inch XE. Don't know what HOLD means but I think it might have been a cancelled order as my gun has standard barrel engraving and no swivels. It looks like some of the specifics were scribbled out.
Re: English Proofs
Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2023 5:41 pm
by bryanemch
the XE also has a round knob rather than a straight grip. Can anyone tell what it says between the date and serial number on the back of the card, looks like like Fox ------ -------?
Re: English Proofs
Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2023 7:13 am
by Stan Hillis
"Fox forend latch" ?
Re: English Proofs
Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2023 7:38 pm
by Drew Hause
Late to the party.
Both guns carry 1954-1989 Proof Marks
Stan's was London Proved in 1975
Re: English Proofs
Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2023 7:37 am
by Stan Hillis
Thanks, Doc. I do not know how I had overlooked that tiny mark all this time.
