Fox Collectors

Thought I'd start this thread rather than hijackin' the previous SW S&U thread. The subject came up about consecutive serial number Foxes and I mentioned I'd share a few pics of a couple of guns that have been around here for awhile. Both 20 ga SPE Skeet & Upland Game guns. 203797 & 203798. Both guns fully optioned and untouched. Rather a delightful pair. I bought them about 5 yrs apart from one another. -798 came first... took me about a dozen years to buy that gun from the original owner's son right here just outside of Utica in 1996. The original owner was a former Savage/Fox employee.
-797 was advertised in the Shotgun News or the Gun List in 2000. The serial number wasnt listed in the ad but I inquired as I had been documenting SP(E) guns for a number of years by that time. When the man shared the number with me I had no option other than to make the purchase decision. HAHA.

......another pic I couldnt get to load in the first post......

Great stuff Tom! What are the odds?

Very rare indeed times two!

Reminds me of when we put those B's together up at Hauseman's.

Really cool!

Tom,
That is a very nice pair!!! Fully optioned and looks to be fantastic condition!

very desirable set, im proud for you, thanks for post and pics,regards Fred

Exceptionally nice Thomas.

You sure know how to do it.

Way to go, Tom! Thanks for sharing that story, and the pics. Now, the search is on for 796 and 799?

Tom, thanks for posting these pictures. They act as a good "benchmark" while studying other SPE Skeet and Uplands.

Since joining this group 8 years ago I haven't spent much time observing the "SKUGG" models. Lately, they've piqued my interest a little so now I'm starting to pay attention. In McIntosh's book, he offers a lot of good information, but sometimes it seems like he rambles a little and I have a tough time collecting concise descriptions of the models. The Sterlingworth SKUGG seems somewhat straight forward. It has a straight grip, barrels are 26" or 28", it's choked "skeet" and "quarter choke". Beyond that, it could be ordered with the usual options.

The SPE Skeet and Upland Game Gun seems a little trickier. The pictures on pages 292 and 294 clearly show nice engraving on both the frame and the barrels, and the gun has a nice beavertail forearm. Also, on page 293, McIntosh shows an advertisement for an SPE SKUGG. In the ad, the pictured gun has that nice "fluted" look at the start of the comb that I like so much. The ad also states that the gun comes with a checkered walnut butt and a semi beavertail forearm (full beavertail is optional). The characteristics that I just mentioned (engraved barrels, beavertail forearm, and "fluted comb" are appealing to me, and I noticed that they are also clearly evident on your guns.

Checking Guns International, I found 5 of the Sterlingworth SKUGGS, but only one SPE SKUGG (#102053997 listed in the Sterlingworth section). This SPE Skeet & Upland has nice engraving on the frame, but no engraving on the barrels. Next, I checked the forearm. To me, it looks like the usual "thick" Utica style forearm. I would be hard pressed to call it a "semi beavertail". Lastly, I looked at the stock. There is no checkered butt, and the front of the comb doesn't have that sexy fluted look that I like so much. So, Tom (and the rest of you) is the SPE SKUGG pictured on GI "not correct" or are there other variations that I haven't gleamed from McIntosh's writing? I'm not necessarily considering this exact gun, I'm just doing due diligence in case one becomes available sometime. I'm a very, very firm believer in "buyer beware". Jeff

There are different variations of the SPE guns. I have one with a straight grip and a buttplate. I have the card that specified a slender beavertail and special M/F chokes. It is engraved on the frame and barrel wedges. Double ivories and single trigger.

Jeff,
William Headrick wrote an excellent article in THE DOUBLE GUN JOURNAL Vol.13 issue #2 starting on page 82 very informative and wonderful pictures ! Tom Wyraz (MARSHFELLOW) also wrote a Very informative article in the 2009 Spring News Letter .

Jerry

From the introduction of the SP-/SPE-Grades in June 1932, they were evolving.
The early guns had perfectly plain metal and a rounded comb nose.
and the only place A.H. Fox was marked on the gun was on the barrels --
In the 1934 Wholesale Price List, Savage introduced the Fox Special Skeet Grade still with plain metal and the special butt plate --

Very fine guns! Bobby

The next year, 1935, the SP-Grade Skeet & Upland Game Gun was introduced --
Also, for 1935, the SP-/SPE-Grade got some borderline engraving on the frame and a couple of stippled panels on the top of the standing breech.
AT some point they went to marking the right barrel SPECIAL ALLOY -- FORGED STEEL and the name FOX was nowhere on the gun!
So, eventually they started engraving A.H. FOX on the side of the frames --

The 1936 retail catalog adds the option of a ventilated rib to the SP-Grade Skeet and Upland Game Gun --
The February 10, 1936, Retail Prices shows the ventilated rib gun to be the SPR-Grade.
However, the 1936 Wholesale Price List shows the SPR-Grade Skeet and Upland Game Gun to be similar to the Trap Grade of earlier years with a regular profiled frame.
Only Marshfellow understands these!!

By 1937, the retail catalog shows the SPE-Grade Skeet and Upland Game Gun with choices of 26- or 28-inch barrels and the option of a full pistol grip --
The same for 1938.

By the 1939, Retail catalog the text includes "Chambered for 2 3/4" shells."
No retail, wholesale or jobbers price list that I've ever seen prices a ventilated rib for an SP-/SPE-Grade.

The SPE-Grade Skeet and Upland Game Gun doesn't appear in any Fox paper I've seen after 1939