Western 1 5/8 oz. wad column

[Stan Hillis]

Does anyone have a period advertisement showing a "cutaway" view of the wad column used, or a descriptive of it, in the 1 5/8 oz., 2 7/8", ten gauge loads?

Dave?

[Researcher]

I don't have anything specific on the 12-gauge 3-inch Magnum 1 5/8-ounce wad column. At the time the 1 5/8-ounce load came out in 1935 --

Super-X 12-gauge, 3-inch, RECORD, MAGNUM #5 chilled.jpg (105.64 KiB) Viewed 3308 times

Western was using their Seal-Tite wads.

Shortly after WW-II Western went to their Super Seal Cup Wads --

Western and Winchester continued to use the Super-Seal Cup Wads well into the plastic shell era. From 1973 --

[Stan Hillis]

That's exactly what I was wanting to see, Dave. Thanks!

[Silvers]

I may be wrong but I think Stan was asking about the period 10-gauge/1-5/8 ounce progressive load as put up in 2-7/8 inch shells.

Anyone into loading heavy charges of bare lead or bismuth etc shot into 10g 2-7/8" hulls would do well to use a gas seal between the powder and fiber wad(s). Only 1/4" thickness and very efficient at "sealing the gas chamber" whether with folded or roll crimps. frank
.

[Researcher]

Looks like a modern-day incarnation of the old Alcan PGS wad that replaced the nitro card wad early in my shot shell loading career.

Frank is right of course. I see now Stan was really asking about the 2 7/8-inch 10-gauge Super-X load. The March 2, 1925, Western Cartridge Co. price booklet doesn't show the 10-gauge Super-X load, but it is in the 1926 Western Ammunition for Rifle, Revolver and Shotgun.

At that time I'd expect the load had the regular FIELD shell wad column.

The patent covering the SEAL-TITE wad was issued in February 1928, but I don't see them being mentioned in advertising until the early 1930s about the same time the non-corrosive primers were added.

[Stan Hillis]

Thanks Frank, and Dave. I did not realize I had made a mistake typing my original post. It has been edited and corrected.

Muchas gracias, amigos.

[Researcher]

I've been doing a bit more looking and while the popular gauges got the Super-Seal Crimp and the Super-Seal Cup Wads circa 1947, the slow seller 2 7/8-inch 10-gauge continued with the Seal-Tite wads and roll crimp through the blue & yellow box era. Super-X 10-gauge 2 7/8-inch box with the SX10 load number which was introduced in 1953 --

The only Super-X 2 7/8-inch 10-gauge paper shells with the Super-Seal Crimp that I've seen are in the yellow boxes which begin appearing in 1961.

Super-X 10-gauge, 2 7-8 inch, SX10, yellow front.JPG (68.2 KiB) Viewed 3114 times

Super-X 10-gauge, 2 7-8 inch, SX10, yellow Super-Seal Crimp shells.JPG (43.22 KiB) Viewed 3114 times

Super-X 10-gauge, 2 7-8 inch, SX10, yellow back.JPG (114.6 KiB) Viewed 3114 times

A few years later the Super-X 2 7/8-inch 10-gauge shells were plastic --

[Silvers]

10g 2-7/8" roll crimped shells ..... a long gone era.

L to R:
Rem Express - 1-5/8 ounce Progressive
Western Super-X - 1-5/8 ounce, maximum Progressive
Rem Nitro Club headstamp/Nitro Express on the overshot card
Rem-UMC Shurshot "Field Load" - 4-1/4 drams (not DE), 1-1/4 ounce

[Stan Hillis]

This is the closest thing I have. Right load ....... wrong gauge. Pie crimp.

[Researcher]

Probably forty years ago a seller at the Great Southern Weapons Fair at the Richmond Fair Grounds gave me a cigar box of old shotgun shells that he didn't want to carry home. What a terrible thing to do to a person!! Infected me with the shotshell collecting disease. Some shells from that cigar box.

Some Union Metallic Cartridge Co. 10-gauge shells from the first decade of the 20th century. NEW CLUB black powder --

NITRO CLUB bulk smokeless powder --

Winchester REPEATER of pre 1919 era loaded with Infallible dense smokeless powder --

REPEATER 10-Gauge, 28-grains Infallible, 1 1-8-ounce, #2, WRA Co.jpg (97.84 KiB) Viewed 3011 times

[Stan Hillis]

Those are great, Dave. My grandfather used to tell me about using New Clubs hunting quail on our farm. Many years after he died I found a New Club shell head in a field here. I saved it because I know he was likely the last person to lay hands on it, as he pulled it out of the chamber, until I picked it up many, many years later. The New Club loads have always held a special place in my memory because of the stories he told me.

[67galaxie]

Stan I don't know how you keep those out of the HE

[Stan Hillis]

Stan I don't know how you keep those out of the HE

Fear of reprisal? I don't have any "pull" with those Arkansas game wardens, Keith.

If temptation ever gets the best of me I will use a few of my box of 1 3/8 oz. SuperX loads. Hate to break up that full box of 1 5/8 oz. ones.

[Silvers]

Stan I don't know how you keep those out of the HE

Let's remember that almost all 3 IN. HE's were made and regulated for the 12g/1-3/8 ounce load. Same with LC Smith Long Range guns made for the period 3-inch progressive shell. Perhaps either/both guns made in limited numbers after 1935 were intended for the much heavier 1-5/8 ounce shells but I've never seen an maker advert or other documentation to that effect. To be sure many of the duo were fired with whatever the hardware was stocking to include 1-5/8 ounce boomers and I've done that myself in earlier years but nowadays I'll load up with 1-3/8 ounce loads when hunting with vintage guns, and wary game and long range are anticipated. Remember that mass of payload and speed equate to recoil and I dare say a large percentage of nimrods aren't accomplished shots with extra heavy loads and especially so at long range. frank

[Stan Hillis]

Remember that mass of payload and speed equate to recoil and I dare say a large percentage of nimrods aren't accomplished shots with extra heavy loads and especially so at long large. frank

Amen! I require a pistol grip gun to handle heavy waterfowl loads well enough to get off a well "aimed" second shot without a slowed recovery time. I have an A grade, 32", 3" chambered, straight grip Fox that I have tried to use on ducks. I just cannot grip that straight wrist well enough to make a quick second shot, with heavy loads. The gun jumps around in my hands more, under recoil. Mr. Nash and others notwithstanding, maybe I'm just not "man enough".