Fox Collectors

A few pics of my Model 12 20-gauge straight gripper, 28" Nickel Steel, solid rib, Full choke, weight 6-9. Made in 1927.

She came to me with a headspace issue and resulting extraction problem. A replacement chamber ring had been improperly fitted, supposedly by a well known gunsmithing firm. Those familiar with Model 12's know the ring must be absolutely dead nuts concentric/sized to the back end of the chamber, and this one was was off. Normally that's done with special piloted tooling from the muzzle end, but a NOS unfitted chamber ring and improvised setups on the lathe and mill did the trick here.

I shot her for the first time a few days ago, 42/44 on Super Sporting clays. She fed and extracted perfectly with a mix of Remington, Federal and Estate factory 7/8 ounce loads. All with modern steel base hulls that often cause problems in Model 12's. Ready to rock on!

frank

There are some small raindrops on the Winny in these pics

Looks like a dandy shotgun. Nice shooting!

Nice gun!

I love those solid rib small bores ! Great looking gun . Jerry

Thanks gents. I shot her again today, 100 shots and all lf them doubles (simo pairs) as our gang prepped for the "Dastardly Doubles" sporting clays competition on this coming Sunday. We had 7 in the squad and the Winchester ended up one bird behind my friend Allan who was high gun using his Perazzi 12-gauge competition gun. 85 and 86 ex 100 respectively. The Winchester did well considering the typical Rock Mtn upscore of +5 for a 20 bore and +5 for a pump gun. The upscores didn't apply for our fun shooting today but you get the idea on this Model 12. But at 6-9 weight those 100 shots with 7/8 ounce/1200 speed loads added up and especially so with the Winchester's hard butt plate. Missed only 4 of the first 50 birds but 11 of the last 50 when I started getting recoil jumpy. Just goes to underscore why lightweight guns (whether small bore Model 12's, Foxes, Parkers, etc.) aren't the best for long strings of shots and with conventional loads.

frank

Completely agree about 100 rounds with a lightweight gun. That's when I add one of my KickKiller leather lace-on pads. They are the most amazing recoil attenuation devices I've ever used, inexpensive, and I've never worn one out. They claim to have some polymer substance inside called Akton. I used one on my Beretta SP II Sporting on two trips to Cordoba and could go through in excess of 1000 rounds of 7/8 oz. loads in a day without undue soreness. It adds no more than 1/2" to LOP, and most of my guns need that, for me.

Amazing little product. Wish I had invented it.

Frank,

I know they aren't everyone's cup of tea but that is where the 3/4oz. 20ga load shines. I shot over a flat of them through my 30" 20 SW at Mike's which weighs in at 6-10. You just have to develop confidence in them and use at least a mod choke. Nice shooting.

The 20-gauge Model 12 Skeet Guns posted a lot of 100 straights on the world's skeet fields with 7/8-ounce loads. Ole' Researcher even did it once in September 1975.

Methinks the modern econo factory loads for 20 and well as 12, the ones with steel bases (sometimes plated to look like brass) and typically sold in 4-packs are loaded with smaller doses of faster burning/non cannister powders, than the period loads. Less weight of powder = economy due to more shells per pound or ton of propellant. And even at the same ballistics, i.e., 7/8 ounce at 1200 speed in 20-gauge, they seem to have a quicker recoil impulse probably for reliable functioning in all semi autos, even though the physics of net/total recoil is about the same. Kind of like a quick jab versus a slower push. Now, maybe the average citizen who shoots a few shells a year at bunnies or birds with his 20 Fox or whatever may not notice the difference but an experienced clays shooter firing 100 rounds will. And that quick jab on the wood in the stock heading can’t be good. Just one more reason to shoot RST's or equivalent reloads. All this just my take on modern factory econo loadings. frank

I have always loaded my compression formed 20-gauge AAs with the 7/8-ounce load with the * next to it that says it duplicates the factory AA. For the last twenty years I've loaded my stock of Remington STS and Gun Clubs with 3/4-ounce loads.

Newer forum member running into an older post of interest.
Nice 20ga Model 12! When I’m not shooting one of my doubles, I’m shooting one of my Model 12’s, My near mint condition(1963) 28” 20ga field model(bottom), and, my go-to for decades, (1941) 28” 12ga field model which I eventually added a Briley thin-walled, flush, choke system. I also own a 12ga skeet model. My 12ga Model 12’s feed flawlessly with most all ammo, My 20 is pickier, preferring brass cases.

Great guns and a nice battery. I have (3) 20-gauge Model 12’s and one will digest any shell whether US or the many imported I’ve tried. The other two 20’s are pickier, preferring US made shells whether brass or steel based. Imported shells and particularly Cheddite type with very low insert-type base wads can expand very slightly into the transition line between the barrel breech and the chamber ring, and cause hard extraction. Very careful polishing can help somewhat but I just stick with my reloads in AA hulls or with factory AA’s or Gun Clubs. Estates or Federals with so-called “high brass” also work fine. We well remember that the majority of M1912 and M12 Winchesters were made when paper shells with very long and thick base wads was the norm = virtually zero expansion of the shell base when fired.

I also have several 12-gauge Model 12’s and shoot them heavily for regular sporting clays. In fact I was shooting a solid rib one at a RGS shoot yesterday. My 12’s seem to be less finicky with import shells and yesterday that M12 digested 100 Italian NobelSports perfectly. 1-ounce at 1200 speed.

For those coming to the Northern SxS at Rock Mountain Sporting Clays in NE PA in late July - there will be (two) vintage pump gun events. One each for large bore and smallbore vintage pump guns to include 410. I don’t remember if 16-gauge is classed with large or small. Great fun!!