Fox Collectors

Ducks and "The King", my favorite!

Silvers wrote: ****snip****
Food for thought: what happens if you break a 70 to 100+ year old part that's been actuated umpteen times, or pop a barrel rib solder joint? And for those who hunt wild birds in thickets with these guns, those old barrels dent a lot more easily than modern alloy steel tubes. What about nigh unobtainable small bore parts like ejectors? New Britain doesn't sell them or any of its small bore parts.

It's always good to know what you're getting into.

Geez Frank, have you become an alarmist? It sounds as if you're advocating those that own and shoot their original A.H. Fox smallbores relegate them to a safe out of fear of breaking an ejector or popping a rib or denting the barrels or God knows what in favor of something modern.

The sky ain't fallin'!

bamboozler wrote:............ Geez Frank, have you become an alarmist? It sounds as if you're advocating those that own and shoot their original A.H. Fox smallbores relegate them to a safe out of fear of breaking an ejector or popping a rib or denting the barrels or God knows what in favor of something modern.

The sky ain't fallin'!

Greg, I dare say very few gents shoot their original A H Fox guns more than I do, and as you know I’m partial to honest Sterly Ejector small bores for my grouse hunting and long barreled vixens for waterfowl.

This is an older thread and the more recent posts, since December, mainly have to do with the high quality and reliability/factory warranty of the New Britain Foxes. They're true to Ansley's 1906 design and I'd hardly call them "modern". I'm reluctant to give equivalent high marks to full blown custom Fox small bores except perhaps to those done up by recognized craftsmen but even then the donor guns were made with mild steels and have old solder joints and tired parts. That's not to say they won't hold up reasonably well but all mechanisms have a given life before breakage. Better to start at year zero to 20 or so, than at year 70 to 100+.

Come on now Greg, I never wrote nor inferred here that anyone should put away their original A H Fox guns to save them from breakage, dents etc. Actually in many writings I've done the opposite. IMO there’s not much nicer than fielding an honest old Fox with its spirit and memories intact.

Now for a bit of sensationalism back at ya. From your posts on the PGCA site you seem to be an aficionado of "modern" Parker Repros made in Japan for a few years, with their fake frame colors that wear off so easily and a penchant for single trigger problems. No factory warranty that carries on, and so many on the market seem to have been relegated to a safe from day-one. And then when the single trigger balks, doubles or doesn't work, we hear it might be "old congealed oil" or "a burr". Yeah right, ha ha! And with all that said it's kind of odd that you're chiding me on the excellent New Britain Foxes made as always in the good ole USA, a progression from Ansley and thru the Godshalks, Savage Arms and now Tony. What was that, about 27 years and counting in New Britain?

frank

Geez Frank, do you ordinarily talk out of both sides of your mouth? . . .

On Jan. 6 you wrote and I quote "New Britain Foxes are certainly expensive but they're true to Ansley's design and you get modern metallurgy and a lifetime warranty." Then, the very next day you write "They're true to Ansley's 1906 design and I'd hardly call them "modern"." What's up with that?

Speaking of the lifetime warranty, I have to wonder what that lifetime warranty will look like when Tony is gone?

On Jan 7th you posted "I never wrote nor inferred here that anyone should put away their original A H Fox guns to save them from breakage, dents etc." Then, the very same day you wrote: "Food for thought: what happens if you break a 70 to 100+ year old part that's been actuated umpteen times, or pop a barrel rib solder joint? And for those who hunt wild birds in thickets with these guns, those old barrels dent a lot more easily than modern alloy steel tubes. What about nigh unobtainable small bore parts like ejectors? New Britain doesn't sell them or any of its small bore parts." If that ain't inferring, I don't know what is!

Frank you're very well respected around here, many including myself look up to and admire you for your knowledge and expertise. But,I have to wonder what the craftsmen, members of the ACGG, those that make their living and feed their families building custom guns including Foxes, think when you write: "There's a lot to be said for the full race custom Fox small bores, to include picking out knockout wood, carefully fitted, and selecting unique and striking engraving done by one of the true masters. But will the product exceed or even equal the quality of a New Britain Fox? Not in my book, but I suppose that's in the eye of the beholder."

Talk about me chiding you -- let me add a little more . . . I saw your post on the PGCA forum where you mentioned that you're looking to purchase a Parker Reproduction. You know, the one's that are made in Japan, have modern steel, have fake colors, have single trigger problems, no factory warranty, etc. Ya those. If I should come across one for sale, I'll let you know!

NOTE: All the above was written in jest, none of it is to be taken seriously except the part about Frank being well respected for his knowledge and expertise.

LAST EDIT 2:54 pm

Greg, reading carefully here ..... modern metallurgy, i.e., high tensile alloy steels and selective/controlled heat treatment, is different than modern design (way newer than 1906).

The WTB for the Parker Repro was for a friend who asked me to find one for her and I figured the PGCA forum would be the place to post since I see so many NIB or mint ones there for sale. At the time I owned an excellent VH Upland 20 bore along with several small bore Foxes and had no personal interest in a Parker Repro.

I routinely write off the cuff and often edit posts multiple times to clarify or as I have further thoughts.

"There's a lot to be said for the full race custom Fox small bores, to include picking out knockout wood, carefully fitted, and selecting unique and striking engraving done by one of the true masters. But will the product exceed or even equal the quality of a New Britain Fox? Not in my book, but I suppose that's in the eye of the beholder."

Let's remember that the word "quality" (underscored in the quote) means excellence and that includes attributes such as reliability when the product is used often and over generations - as most gents envision when they buy that special Fox or get one made up..

I read my other quotes you copied and don't see anything inconsistent and nothing to justify continuing this back and forth.

This should be my last post on this thread. I don't appreciate the sniping whether done in jest or not. Too many readers remember the headliners and not the postscript. I do look forward to meeting you and shooting clays together some day; I'd love to see your custom Fox 20 bore 30-incher in action on a course. Remember when I wrote to you on the barrel weight and what you replied?

frank

Silvers wrote: ****snip****
I do look forward to meeting you and shooting clays together some day; I'd love to see your custom Fox 20 bore 30-incher in action on a course. Remember when I wrote to you on the barrel weight and what you replied?

frank

I, too; would very much like meeting you and shooting some clays together. I'm sure you could give me some pointers on how to shoot and score better!

I don't particularly like to snipe or to be sniped for that matter either. I'm somewhat reluctant to reply, but since I was asked a question with an emoji that inferred the answer I replied with was a little off the wall and not to your liking, I thought the courtesy of a response was in order. The answer to your question is YES! With the help of the PM system I know exactly what your question was and how I replied.

Here was your question: "I do have one question: you mentioned that your donor gun had 4-weight barrels, and I am wondering what the barrels weighed and what they weigh now? I ask that because the weights (mass) shown in MM's book is for unstruck rough barrels and it's my experience that barrels will lose 3-4 ounces from the mass weights shown in his chart, on production guns. Again, a very very nice gun. I personally would much rather a custom early Fox small bore than one of the CSMC guns."

And here was my reply: "On my digital postal scale my gun's 20-ga. 30" barrels weigh 2 lbs. 13.4 oz. I don't recall exactly what they weighed when I got the gun, as I didn't write it down, but it was under the 2 lb. 14 oz. unstruck weight on the MM chart. I suppose one could argue that they're actually 3 weight barrels and 6-7 oz. were struck off, but I'm not one of them. Besides, I like the sound of 4 weight better. "