Fox Collectors

So I finally joined the AHFCA and the first order of business was to get a production card for this gun. I wanted to post the card here to see if I could have a few questions answered. First off, the chokes are listed as C and F. I know without measuring the chokes it’s hard to say for sure but do you guys think that barrel has the fox cylinder choke, IM, or regular cylinder (no choke)? Any insight into that would be appreciated. Also, the gun was shipped to “Applegate & Co.” on August 5th 1914. Anyone have any info on this company? I appreciate you guys looking...any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Matt

PS: just picked up a nice 30” Sterlingworth 20 bore!!! Stoked!

Use the advance search function for "Applegate".

I have 2 guns from the same store, an XE and a B, both with English Stocks. I posted about them years ago when I bought the guns. Except for the few clippings I attached below, all I know about ES Applegate is in my previous posts to find.

Small world story is that I grew up down the street from where the store was located in Trenton NJ from 1960 to 1982. The store probably closed sometime around the great depression though.

Roger

Matt I have a Fox AE 16 gauge that was factory full and Cylinder. As I recall the Cylinder has about .004 of choke.

Tom,
Do you have the card for that particular gun you mentioned? If so, was it marked the same way on your card? Only reason I ask is because I do not have a bore gauge or even a drop-in choke gauge.

Roger,
As I said via PM...thanks again for the info, very helpful and exciting, I would love to see pics of your two applegate & co. guns sometime.

Thanks guys,
Matt

Matt, you asked about the possibility of IM choking. IM (Improved Modified) is tighter than Modified (50%) and less tight than Full (70%). Call it 60% for I-Mod. Also known as 3/4 choke in period double gun maker parlance. I assume that's a typo and you meant IC (Improved Cylinder) that generally denotes about 45% patterning in the 30-inch circle at 40 yards

"Fox Cylinder" choke in 20 bore will generally have a short taper, about 1/2" long, and about 3 to 4 thou of constriction. I personally have never seen a Fox in any gauge with a bore-sized/parallel section at the muzzle that I've taken as factory original.

frank

Frank,
Yes sir that was my mistake, pardon me for the typo. So would you say after seeing the card that this gun is probably factory choked with that “fox cylinder” choke in the right barrel with .004” constriction? If so that makes this gun even more bittersweet...I love it sooo much, but cannot bring myself to fire it seeing as it is 106 years old and remains unfired. Now that I have the card and see the choke configuration I would surmise it to be a pretty darn good all-around upland bird gun.
-Matt

Yah based on the card it should have 3-4 points of constriction in the right barrel but as we know assemblers and records clerks did make human error mistakes. Best you get the bores and chokes measured with a good bore mike - that's not a typo, the word is mike (not as morphed to mic) in old-time machinist lingo. Matt, you wrote you don't have a bore mike and if so I suggest you get one. One bad gun buy with a bulged barrel that was struck over and spot blued will be a costly error, much more so than the expense of a good bore micrometer. Personally I don't like the common el cheapo one (name excluded) as the two I had were Ok I guess but would run out (accumulate error) toward both extremes of measurement range. Best I found was the now discontinued Stan Baker "Barrel Reader". I see them once in a while on E-Bay, or you might do a WTB on this and any other collector gun forums. The Universal one with 3 probes is best as it will measure from 410 bore up through 10-gauge bore diameters.

frank

Frank,
I agree, I should have one...I’ve wanted a stan baker or as Jolly Bill kindly showed me his frank mitermeir (most likely misspelled that one) choke gauge. I had some good news today when I spoke to the gent I purchased this gun from and turns out I may be able to acquire some family history on this sweetheart...fingers crossed.
-Matt