Fox Collectors

call it what you want... I only had a few minutes to post earlier today and was not trying to imply anything in particular...

I doubt that a "policy" of doing such would transfer from Philly to Utica but who knows. I think its interesting either way and am waiting for someone to post contrary to this ...anyone else???

Ted Huff, I see we have consecutive numbered guns. You have 66097 and I have 66098. 66098 was shipped May 4, 1915. 66097 would have been on the shelf a long time for a 80 year old to have purchased your gun new. 66097 would have been purchased around 1950, long after the last of the Foxes were sold. It may have been in new condition and that is what he remembers. It really doesn't matter, it is still nice to buy from an early owner.

I wonder if Wildfowl guns follow this pattern? I am away from my guns and records to see if the Wildfowl and Deluxe I have follow the pattern.
jess

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Add one more 32" SW non-ejector #2 weight bbls 102053..same pattern, Hummm

I just found this thead. I have 32 inch Sterlingworth 88004 with Jostom Hy Gun pad.It has.737 bores&.043 chokes in boht barrels.Its quit light at 7lb 8oz swings great!These old Fox guns are nice.Iam sending in my dues to join today. Pete

Pete, welcome to the forum and thanks for your info. Bore(s) of .737" are on the large size for a Sterlingworth. If that reading is correct it's likely the bores have been honed or backbored, and in that case you may want to get a competent barrel man to measure and profile the wall thickness in both barrels. Silvers

Silvers thanksfor the reply. I measurerd with my tuning fork wall thickness gauge and .030 about 9 in from muzzel is the thinest spot. They weight 3 lb 12 oz and are 1 wt marked. I was hoping they were little Bo Whoops. pete

Pete, usually 1-weight 32" barrels in 12 gauge will go a bit over 4 pounds. That's the "as found' weight (mass) on the gun, after striking and finishing. I've weighed many many Fox barrels on a precision scale, both weight-stamped and not, and there is a variation in mass even amongst those with the same length and stamping. I attribute this to different bore diameters and how aggressive the finisher was that day. It also believe that at times Fox made lighter mass barrels out of heavier ones - when a specific gun weight was ordered RUSH and tubes of that weight (mass) were out of stock.

This is a confusing subject and folks often forget that the mass charts shown in MM's book are for rough finished barrel sets. Well anyway if your SW tubes have bores of .737" and are marked with 1's and they weigh 3-12, I'd say there's a likelihood they were overbored for whatever reason either by Fox, or afterwards by the Philly or Savage factory, or by an aftermarket source. Barrels were often honed or backbored to clean up corrosion.

It's surprising how much weight is lost when doing an overbore. Let's say you have heavy walls and can safely go from an early Fox 12 gauge bore of .724" to an overbore of .737". In that case you'll lose about 108 grams or 3.82 ounces. That's based on an average density of alloy steel.

Good deal on your membership application. I look forward to seeing you on the Member's Forum. Silvers

Silvers wrote:
It's surprising how much weight is lost when doing an overbore. Let's say you have heavy walls and can safely go from an early Fox 12 gauge bore of .724" to an overbore of .737". In that case you'll lose about 108 grams or 3.82 ounces. That's based on an average density of alloy steel.
Silvers

Interesting number... good too know how much weight could be expected to be lost with backboring.

Thanks Silvers for the reply.I zeroed my gauge on the .700 ring and measured again and I still got .737on the32 incher. I measured a1928 model Sterlingworth and got.732 in both barrels .048 L&.034 R on 2 WT barrels that weigh 3.5 lbs.30 in long.The 32s seem light in comparison. Is it normal to have such tight chokes in Fox guns? Pete

I have personally measured a number of high condition Fox guns that measured .732. I consider them original bores, but I defer to Silver's as he is our tech expert. I have a 1928 Sterly that chokes measure .33/.47 so tight chokes are commonly found. Craig

Except for HE grade Supers, most Fox 12 gauge bores I've measured were at or under the 12 gauge nominal size (.729"). But, same as Fox Admin I've also measured some high condition originals that went up to .732". The smallest Fox 12 ga bore I ever measured was .721". I believe this range exists because Fox depended on several outside suppliers for barrels, and factory and supplier specs probably changed over time. With this data I personally consider .732" to be the max factory bore for standard 12 gauge Fox guns. Another personal criteria for determining factory supplied bores is that the size is uniform along the entire length within a tolerance of +/- 1/2 thou or so. I'm thinking that very few gunsmiths who did bore work had (or have) a Sunnen or equivalent barrel hone that can keep that tolerance over the length. If your bore mike is reading an irregular bore it's probably been worked on, IMO.

Regarding the loss of weight (mass) when a barrel is overbored, the earlier calculation I posted was done with a math formula I made up some years ago when getting K, B and P gun barrels backbored for clays shooting; and I've verified it has good accuracy. Nowadays I stick with regular bores. Silvers

I had a Sterlingworth wildfowl in about mint condition with 32 " barrels but as usual i sold it probably 10 years ago ! Bobby

This is an interesting thread. I don't know if the 0 in the hundreds slot is a rule, but if it is I have one on the way that may prove to be the exception. This one is a bit earlier than #66,007, the ejector I mentioned in my previous posts. I've only seen one poor picture, but I'll have it in hand next week.