Fox Collectors

I love to fish. I almost always fish with dry flies. If I was more interested in catching I would use a weighted nymph or a marshmallow and a worm. To me it is about the method. If I was practical I would buy my meat at the grocery store. It would certainly be a lot less expensive. At the end of the day it is all about the method.
John

I used to do a lot of pheasant hunting before my once in a lifetime black Lab, Mandy, died. She loved pheasant hunting. She was pretty big for a female, 75 lbs, and there was no cover she would not go in. We hunted public wildlife areas where the wild pheasants got hammered day after day. My pheasant gun: 16 GA M21, Imp Cyl/Imp Mod, Tungsten Matrix 1 1/4 oz. For these conditions, I needed the 16 GA short magnum for consitant kills. However, for planted pheasants at a pheasant club, I used a 3".41o

Good discussion!

No disrespect meant to Frank, but comparing pheasants to mallard may not the best comparison?

From my experience, the feathers and skin of mallards are "tougher" than that of pheasants and likely retard penetration of shot more so than that of pheasants. Depending on when and where mallards are shot in fall, they can carry thick layers of down and heavy deposits of fat underneath the skin, more so than any KS or SD pheasant that I have ever shot. I suspect mallard wing bones might be relatively larger and thicker than those of pheasants, given the requirements of muscle mass, exertion, etc. for long distance migrations at high altitudes that mallards undertake in fall. My impression from cleaning harvested birds of both species is that it is much harder to break/snap mallard wing bones than those of pheasants, by hand or with shears.

Thus, the hypothesis would be that "heaver" shells (mass and velocity) and larger shot are required to get the same penetration to vital organs in mallards as compared to pheasants.

Tom Roster might have data on shot penetration depths of various loads in ducks and pheasants that could be used to test the hypothesis.

I believe you should try to match the gun and ammo to the game and conditions. Early in the season when ducks are less wary and decoy readily I shoot 1 1/8oz #5 1150fps bismuth handloads, it has proved to be very effective over many years. Shooting close decoying ducks with 1 3/8oz of TM makes the meat unfit for the table (but you do have a dead bird). As the season progresses the birds become much more wary and the shots are normally much longer and the birds are fat and fully feathered, that's when I switch to #5 TM 1 3/8oz in the second barrel.
Pheasants early season in the Dakota's normally flush fast and hard with dogs. A fast light gun with a modest load wins the day in my experience especially walking 10 miles per day. With these birds you better have your gun in ready position because they are gone in a flash. If I hunted late season when pheasants that flush on the slamming of a car door a half mile away I would opt for a larger gauge and a heaver load. The farm where we hunt pheasants has a large collection of ammo guest have left behind over the years and it ranges form 410 #5's to 3 1/2" 12ga #4's. It just shows opinions vary on what is the best load for wild pheasants.

For driven pheasants in Scotland we shot 2.5" Eley Elite Gold, a plastic shotshell but with felt wads and 7/8 oz. of very high content antimony #6 lead shot and a stiff powder charge. I don't recall the velocity, but at an honest 40 yards up over tall timber, this load folded big roosters up like a soft taco. For "bare pond" duck shooting (no blinds, natural cover only), same shells only with #5 shot with the same effect. IMHO, I think the high velocity and definitely the plated shot made a huge diffference. (No "Bo Whoop" shots, but then again, no flooded timber either).

This thread started about short chamber 16 gauge for pheasants. Working with loads for upland guns that are 6 to 6-1/2 lbs, vintage SXS shotguns and what loads will do the best job for roosters in this format. I think its fun to hunt with the old ones like my 1912 Sterlingworth. This format has its limitations as to shot weight, speed and pressure. Factory loaded ammo for the short 16 or very light 16 gun is limited and can be pricy. RST and hand loads are at the top of the list. For me 1oz of 5 shot at 1200 FPS out of a 6lb gun choked M/F that fits me is just about perfect! Always test your loads for pattern quality, its that important. SXS Ohio

Nice guns, Kenny. I like the one made in the first year of production. Jim

There is a big diference shooting at an in coming rooster with all the vitals exposed than a wild rooster going away with the back all bone and just hitting a wing means you will have to deal with a cripple. You can kill an incoming rooster at 4o yds, but I would not shoot at a going away wild rooster because I know I will only cripple the bird.