Fox Collectors

I've been reading this post with much interest and I'll state that the CSMC made with modern steel is a wonderful shotgun. Will it last for a 100 more years? Well, it should given any reasonable amount of care! However, my Fox Sterlingworth, made in 1917, was also in excellent condition when I bought it in 2000. It was only 83 at the time but I'm reasonably certain that it to will last for another 100 years given any kind of reasonable care. The steel in my Fox didn't know it wasn't up to snuff all those years when its owners stuffed any and all manner of loads through it so it kept right on ticking. It was, BTW, tight as the proverbial drum with the top lever right of center and ejectors that worked perfectly and excellent barrels.

I bought my Fox with the express pupose of making a "custom Fox" and that is what I did. I looked at the little gun as raw material to be shaped to my idea of what a Fox could be and what pleased ME. I certainly didn't feel like I was destroying a historical artifact like I would if it was a CE 20 for example.

If I had the option I would prefer a CSMC shotgun in the white without scallops, rebates etc to make a custom shotgun from. I rather doubt that Tony would sell one that way at least at a price that I can afford. It would make the basis of a wonderful custom gun. Maybe someone can call Tony and ask.

I'm not sure that dollars have or should have much to do with whether someone buys a CSMC Fox or goes the custom route. I'm doing a Fox custom for a client at the present time that already has at least one CSMC Fox and maybe more. He also owns, I believe, a Bosis which is a very high dollar shotgun. Dollars cost, at least in his case, is not the issue. He just wants to do something very special using craftsmen of his choice. You might come close to that with a CSMC Fox but not for $14,500 as shown by the price list.

Bamboozler's Fox is an excellent example of a wonderful custom shotgun done by craftsmen of his choice. I know two of the men that did work on the gun (one of them very well) and they are craftsmen of the highest order. Bamboozler got to make all the choices on his gun and create something very special - good for him!

I'm with Jim in suggesting that anyone who gets a chance visit the ACGG Guild show in Reno. The craftsmanship on display there is humbling to say the least. I'm still amazed that they allowed me to become a member.

Seems to me to a 'apples vs. oranges' debate.

On one hand, the CSM route is a full service, built to spec, full lifetime warranty, 'you point, we build', purchase with all the 'best gun' kinda perks. Basically, you're treated like you're spending a lot of money....cause you are. It's available to anyone with the money.

On the other hand, a ground up custom Fox is for the adventurer, the explorer, and maybe even someone with a little or a lot of 'do-it-yourselfer' in him. You have to be willing to search for a gun that is the right one to start the project on. This make take quite a while. You need to work with craftsmen for the various tasks, or do it yourself. Most of all, you need to enjoy doing all this. This route will allow you to produce a unique gun if desired.


The CSM gun will have parts made of modern chromoly steels that are extremely well machined to closer tolerances and better fininishes than an original Fox. Does that make it go bang better? Mostly not.

There are plenty of pitfalls in going the do-it-yourself route as many that have done it will tell you. You have to be the kind of person that sees these pitfalls as challenges and works thru them. But, when it's done, it'll be all yours and likely no other in the world just like it.

Chuck Heald wrote:Seems to me to a 'apples vs. oranges' debate.

On one hand, the CSM route is a full service, built to spec, full lifetime warranty, 'you point, we build', purchase with all the 'best gun' kinda perks. Basically, you're treated like you're spending a lot of money....cause you are. It's available to anyone with the money.

On the other hand, a ground up custom Fox is for the adventurer, the explorer, and maybe even someone with a little or a lot of 'do-it-yourselfer' in him. You have to be willing to search for a gun that is the right one to start the project on. This make take quite a while. You need to work with craftsmen for the various tasks, or do it yourself. Most of all, you need to enjoy doing all this. This route will allow you to produce a unique gun if desired.


The CSM gun will have parts made of modern chromoly steels that are extremely well machined to closer tolerances and better fininishes than an original Fox. Does that make it go bang better? Mostly not.

There are plenty of pitfalls in going the do-it-yourself route as many that have done it will tell you. You have to be the kind of person that sees these pitfalls as challenges and works thru them. But, when it's done, it'll be all yours and likely no other in the world just like it.

Chuck,

Very well stated. As you point out, both options have their unique advantages and either way you wind up with a fine gun. One way seems to make the journey a greater part of the experience and ultimate reward, and one way would seem to be a safer method for the novice. Thanks for the helpful input.

Wade

Projects are scary for those who are not personally acquainted with the craftsmen who assist them in the building of the project gun. I have been lucky in my past project in that the craftsmen were people I knew personally. My present Fox project will probably reach completion mostly with the assistance of people I have met either through members of this organization or by seeing their finished Fox projects up close and personal. I expect my present project to be a pleasant experience with none of the pitfalls that have been suggested by some posters. Wish me luck.

Most interesting-with the Mauser style BA- does that also include the Win M70 mfg 1936-1963 (with the best being from 1936-1948)??

Run With The Fox wrote:Most interesting-with the Mauser style BA- does that also include the Win M70 mfg 1936-1963 (with the best being from 1936-1948)??

I'd rather not start a peeing contest about bolt guns on the Fox forum. If you want to compare custom boltguns on a forum try the gunsmithing section on AR. Lots of custom boltgun smiths there.