CSMC Fox Guns??

[Mike of the Mountain]

I would consider a 28g and a .410 CSMC Fox if they'd give me a good package deal.

[vaturkey]

I would consider a 28g and a .410 CSMC Fox if they'd give me a good package deal.

Now that is a novel concept and I like it.

[kgb]

I'll bet they'd do it.....might be some consideration due as to what constitutes "good" for the both of you though!

[Bob Jurewicz]

Sorry!! Have not been around for a while. I too have been trying to get clarification of what I was told at the Southern. I was told Lucus (sp) was leaving, going back to Germany and CSMC could not build the Fox guns without him. Recently I learned he was still there.
This is the nature of rumors!!!! We will only know as the story plays out.
Bob Jurewicz

[kgb]

Lots of rumors go around if you want to tune in to them. The wisdom would be in not spreading them when they're not true, especially at a website devoted to the subject.

[gwsmith]

I was told yesterday that the 16 gauge I ordered 2.5 years ago will be ready in 2 weeks. Apparently Lucas is doing the finishing work now.

[kgb]

Gws, did you have the opportunity to visit the factory during this period?

[gwsmith]

Gws, did you have the opportunity to visit the factory during this period?

I visited the factory and spent a day there when I placed the order originally and met Lucas as well as couple of the other guys working on the guns. However I have not visited since then.

[Mike of the Mountain]

I'll bet they'd do it.....might be some consideration due as to what constitutes "good" for the both of you though!

Under 25K would be a good deal.

[JNW]

I believe CSMS makes less then 10 foxes a year - usually 3 or 4 lately. They are just too expensive. I have a friend who has a 20 gauge CSMC FE grade 3 barrel set for pheasants and it is sweet. I think for late season he has a set of 32" F/F barrels. This is a gun you just can't buy on the used market at any price. The gunmaker who left was Lucas and he went back to europe. I was told he did the vast majority of the work on the Fox guns. I guess you could call CSMC and ask to order a gun and see what they say.
Regards,
Jeff

[budrichard]

Posting from experience, I have collected Winchester Model 21's and Browning Super's for decades.
I got tired of never having the exact gun I wanted and looking at the junk that was was offered to find a hidden gem.
My experience purchasing a CSMC 20 gauge RBL, which was really a custom SKB s/s which is what I wanted actually, exposed me to Tony's guns whom I had first met in 1990 at a CADA show. From that point on I looked at every CSMC gun I could get my hands on.
I eventually purchased a small frame Model 21 28 gauge Grand American.
Winchester never made a small frame and Winchester 21 28's and 410' are built on 20 gauge frames with drilled 20 gauge barrel blanks and weight over 7 #'s. My small frame weighs 5# 13oz.
I call it, "The best gun Winchester never built".
I like light doubles and when I saw thw weight of the 16 gauge Fox's coming out of CSMC, I ordered one.
Entirely to my specs, DE Special, which is a deeper cut engraving. I specified no small animals and a Fox banner in gold, 26" IC/MOD, single trigger, POW grip, and exhibition Circassian stock.
We had a target weight of 5# 13oz and the gun came in at 5# 9oz.
I shoot 7/8 RST loads and it's a joy to carry and my first shot out of this gun without any practise rounds, killed a dove.
I had a bad experience ordering a custom AyA 16 gauge set and even though my custom 16 gauge Bruchet Darne was successfuly delivered, I had no desire to order a custom gun from oversees anywhere when a world class custom maker was located in the USA. I also shoot a Kolar, same reason.
The Fox is not a remake any more than a new Corvette is a remake.
The Model 21's are as good if not better than Winchester made, not considering engravers of which almost all are dead that worked on Winchester's.
I confess to never having had a Fox in my hands until my 16 gauge arrived from CSMC. Maybe over the years I casually picked up a few at Gun shows but honestly was never impressed with those that I looked at.
What I did know was that I did
not want to toil through looking at Fox's in the market and not getting what I wanted in the end.
Over the decades, I have developed my wants as to what is desirable in a double gun. I don't 'go with the flow' and am not afraid to make my own decisions and put my money down to back them up.
I have no more 'Holy Grails' to find and if I want a new double for a purpose I know where to go.
Rumors aside, CSMC is not going anywhere, they do not deal on price.
What CSMC does do, is make world class doubles at attractive prices considering European old school makers.
You can actually talk to them, go see them.
As to Fox collectors, I was sitting at a hunting preserve showing a friend my CSMC Fox. A guy when hearing Fox, walked over, looked my gun and asked "when was it made"?
"About 7 months ago" was my answer. The guy turned and walked away without another word.
My experience on this Board was lukewarm at best.
This is a 'Fox Collectors' Forum and not a CSMC Fox Forum of which as already Posted, there are not too many owners nor interested individuals and some down right opinionated members.
-Dick

[SXS ohio]

I am headed to CT to order a XE/DE 16ga. two barrel set. I have talked with Lou and I will arrive there Monday about noon on the 9th. I plan to be there about 3 hours or so. Go over my wants, get fitted and hand over my two trades. One of my trades is a return and they are giving me full credit for it. The other just under market and Im happy with that deal. My special is to be Double trigger-caped pistol grip and standard splinter for the grade. It will be ordered to come in at 5lbs-13oz for the 28" barrels with grouse open chokes .003/.010 or Q1/light-mod and 6lbs for the 29" barrels choked for roosters Mod/x-full. Getting a setter on the belly, grouse left side, roosters on right and one woodcock on the trigger bow. Gold triggers, skeleton but plate and grade 4 wood. It will have hi dimensions to match my Parker repro's I hunt so much with. I have owned many nice Fox Philly and Utica guns but they all had low stocks that never fit me just right after shooting the Parker repr's. I do not have endless supply of cash and will use my 2/3 equity to pay for this gun. Balance will be due when gun ships. I hope to have it in my hot little hands for next season or about one year from now. Thanks all SXS ohio

[fox-admin]

Sounds like a great day ordering your Fox. It sound like a very special gun that you will enjoy I am sure. I remember ordering my XE when CSMC was at the old factory. Mine is also a two barrel set 26" Skeet/IC for quail grouse and woodcock, 28" M/IM for western grouse and pheasants.
I am planning a couple of quail hunts next year and a trip to Saskatchewan for prairie birds----my XE 20ga will be with me. Enjoy

[kgb]

What a great way to spend a few hours in CT! If you plan on getting twin beads on the ribs, check out the way they space them on the Fox guns. Rather than placing the mid beads at the mid point they install them further forward. Not sure why, but it is different from some others that are centered. Also, they may have already mentioned it but the "ivory" beads that were usually installed on an X grade gun are now white beads made to look identical to ivory. Lou had an XE 20ga at Pheasant Fest with white beads and said he'd been turned in by a friends-of-the-animals group resulting in a visit from some not very friendly .gov folks--they don't use real ivory any more.

[SXS ohio]

I was at the factory for 3.5 hours......Rush of the senses to say the least. A person really needs a couple days there. But my focus was on ordering my Fox shotgun. I had 8 CSMC Fox guns at arms reach to hold, point, try for fit and lust at. I also got the fondle a new Remington AAH 28ga Parker....sweet but they cost 49K. Lou did a complete show and tell of the factory and of the hi grade gun work being done. He had his stock maker and gun fitter work with me to get my dimensions for the new gun. He took my order info and we covered all the possible options. It was a fun and enjoyable experience to be there. The Man Robert was talking about..Lucus did return to Germany and his helper Ivan has been building the guns for about three years now and is fully qualified gun maker. He has one gun in progress that I did get to see. Ivan was at lunch and I did not meet him in person, maybe next time. I will say that CSMC is building lots of guns in the factory that are mostly machine made, cookie cutter with little hand work. The Fox gun with all the hand custom work, hand engraved, bone color case, and pretty wood its no wonder they have a very limited market share. Who knows how long the factory will offer them???? I am glad I could order mine now. I will just have to deal with the wait time...knowing it will be worth it in the end! Sweet dreams of fine guns, great setters and wild birds...SXS ohio...(-: