What is this wood?

[44whiskey]

thanks tom , always enjoy pics of your customs

[vaturkey]

Here is a pic of the completed gun that had the Turkish walnut.

[44whiskey]

o yes, is that the early D ,it is amazing

[vaturkey]

o yes, is that the early D ,it is amazing

It was an upgrade. 2 barrel set 16 gauge. Dan Rossiter did all the work. I found the donor gun and extra barrel. Gournet engraved it as a first generation D.

[kgb]

"Thin shell" often "European thin shell" is a generic term for Juglans regia (aka English Walnut, French Walnut, Turkish Walnut, Circassian Walnut, etc. all depending on where it is grown).

This is what I have heard about English Walnut, that it is named for where it was grown. Are there any specific characteristics that can be used to identify the region where a particular piece of wood originated? If not, once it is cut and formed to fit a gun it is up to the owner to call it whatever suits him. Did Fox, or any other manufacturer then or now, discriminate to exclusive region(s) on the source of their English walnut?

[Researcher]

The earliest A.H. Fox Gun Co. catalogs use the term English walnut for the A- to D-grades and Circassian walnut for the F-grade. By a couple of years later the D-grades also were listed with Circassian walnut and when the XE-Grade was introduced it also was listed with Circassian walnut. Between the 1916 and 1917 catalogs the A-grade went to "selected dark walnut of good grain and figure", the B-Grade to "selected dark walnut, thoroughly seasoned and of beautiful grain" and the CE-Grade to "a choice selection of dark, curly walnut." When the HE-Grade was introduced the text states "The wood is a good quality of English walnut." The text remained the same through the last Philadelphia catalog.

Remington Arms Co. catalogs use the term "English walnut" for the A-quality guns the added adjectives select B-quality, fine C-quality, extra fine D-quality and best E-quality. The Remington Special had "specially selected Circassian walnut."

[kgb]

The earliest A.H. Fox Gun Co. catalogs use the term English walnut for the A- to D-grades and Circassian walnut for the F-grade. By a couple of years later the D-grades also were listed with Circassian walnut and when the XE-Grade was introduced it also was listed with Circassian walnut. Between the 1916 and 1917 catalogs the A-grade went to "selected dark walnut of good grain and figure", the B-Grade to "selected dark walnut, thoroughly seasoned and of beautiful grain" and the CE-Grade to "a choice selection of dark, curly walnut." When the HE-Grade was introduced the text states "The wood is a good quality of English walnut." The text remained the same through the last Philadelphia catalog.

That to me means it was marketing effort, a change in sourcing of stock blanks, an acknowledgement that they used what they could source, including black walnut, or some combination of those. Is there any recorded history of the efforts of the men who acquired blanks for Fox, or any other manufacturer through the years? I lean toward the marketing side of things, if you're going to charge more for the higher grades then the ad department should go for all the superlatives available and maybe Circassian meant more than French, English, etc. to the consuming public. Especially if there was, and even today is, no way to easily prove the identity of English Walnut growing locations in the wood itself.

[vaturkey]

The earliest A.H. Fox Gun Co. catalogs use the term English walnut for the A- to D-grades and Circassian walnut for the F-grade. By a couple of years later the D-grades also were listed with Circassian walnut and when the XE-Grade was introduced it also was listed with Circassian walnut. Between the 1916 and 1917 catalogs the A-grade went to "selected dark walnut of good grain and figure", the B-Grade to "selected dark walnut, thoroughly seasoned and of beautiful grain" and the CE-Grade to "a choice selection of dark, curly walnut." When the HE-Grade was introduced the text states "The wood is a good quality of English walnut." The text remained the same through the last Philadelphia catalog.

That to me means it was marketing effort, a change in sourcing of stock blanks, an acknowledgement that they used what they could source, including black walnut, or some combination of those. Is there any recorded history of the efforts of the men who acquired blanks for Fox, or any other manufacturer through the years? I lean toward the marketing side of things, if you're going to charge more for the higher grades then the ad department should go for all the superlatives available and maybe Circassian meant more than French, English, etc. to the consuming public. Especially if there was, and even today is, no way to easily prove the identity of English Walnut growing locations in the wood itself.

IMO Thin shell walnut grown in different areas of the world does look different based on the various types of soil they are grown in. If you look at almost every Parker Reproduction shotgun made with California English Walnut you will find blonde background wood with darker mineral streaks. To me based on what I've seen its pretty easy to pick out English Walnut grown in California for that reason. French walnut based on what I've seen is similar to English Walnut but the background has a bit more of a red sheen to it. Once you get into the Circassian area's of the world the background wood gets a bit darker (some say mud like) for the most part and the mineral streaking is in many cases darker and bolder. Exceptions of course, but in my time spent looking over many different types of wood with stockmakers, they can give you a pretty idea of where its grown just by the appearance.

PS. Steven Dodd Hughes has a couple of books folks can find aftermarket from time to time on Ebay and other places that describe the different types of stock woods out there and his thoughts on what is best and why. Also discusses what to look for in regards to proper layout. Good read and he has pictures shown as well.

[kgb]

IMO Thin shell walnut grown in different areas of the world does look different based on the various types of soil they are grown in. If you look at almost every Parker Reproduction shotgun made with California English Walnut you will find blonde background wood with darker mineral streaks. To me based on what I've seen its pretty easy to pick out English Walnut grown in California for that reason. French walnut based on what I've seen is similar to English Walnut but the background has a bit more of a red sheen to it. Once you get into the Circassian area's of the world the background wood gets a bit darker (some say mud like) for the most part and the mineral streaking is in many cases darker and bolder. Exceptions of course, but in my time spent looking over many different types of wood with stockmakers, they can give you a pretty idea of where its grown just by the appearance.

PS. Steven Dodd Hughes has a couple of books folks can find aftermarket from time to time on Ebay and other places that describe the different types of stock woods out there and his thoughts on what is best and why. Also discusses what to look for in regards to proper layout. Good read and he has pictures shown as well.

Are you absolutely certain the wood used on the Parker Reproductions was Juglans regia rather than Juglans hindsii or the hybrid of the two that they call Bastogne? Did the manufacturers state that they used Juglans regia grown in California rather than one of those other varieties?

[vaturkey]

IMO Thin shell walnut grown in different areas of the world does look different based on the various types of soil they are grown in. If you look at almost every Parker Reproduction shotgun made with California English Walnut you will find blonde background wood with darker mineral streaks. To me based on what I've seen its pretty easy to pick out English Walnut grown in California for that reason. French walnut based on what I've seen is similar to English Walnut but the background has a bit more of a red sheen to it. Once you get into the Circassian area's of the world the background wood gets a bit darker (some say mud like) for the most part and the mineral streaking is in many cases darker and bolder. Exceptions of course, but in my time spent looking over many different types of wood with stockmakers, they can give you a pretty idea of where its grown just by the appearance.

PS. Steven Dodd Hughes has a couple of books folks can find aftermarket from time to time on Ebay and other places that describe the different types of stock woods out there and his thoughts on what is best and why. Also discusses what to look for in regards to proper layout. Good read and he has pictures shown as well.

Are you absolutely certain the wood used on the Parker Reproductions was Juglans regia rather than Juglans hindsii or the hybrid of the two that they call Bastogne? Did the manufacturers state that they used Juglans regia grown in California rather than one of those other varieties?

My understanding is all the Parker Reproduction walnut was purchased from Calico Hardwoods in California. They supplied the Claro and the English used on the Reproductions. The owner of Calico Hardwoods at that time was Reagent Chemical who's owner (Tom Skeuse Sr) was the originator of the Parker Reproduction project.

I actually bought a Claro Blank from Calico in 1986 and had a custom stocked SKB model 880 two barrel set (20 and 28 gauge) made for me by SKB while I was stationed in the U.S. Embassy in Tokyo Japan in 1986. Sadly, I got into Foxes and sold the SKB many years later. It was indeed a looker. A clone to the Weatherby Athena at the time with the same engraving. The only thing to separate it from the Athena was the famous Weatherby Diamond in the grip cap couldn't be done as Weatherby wouldn't allow it and of course the barrel markings said SKB 880 instead of Weatherby Athena.

[ROMAC]

Tom,

This is the wood on my Parker Reproduction serial number P-00036. Some of the guys on the Parker site thought it was Claro (so did I) but Brian Dudley thought it looked and might be English depending on the cut, if I remember correctly. Someone even opined French so who knows. I checked Calico hardwoods inventory samples online and it did look like it could be grade AA or AAA Fancy Grade French.

It has a really early prototype serial number so others thought that Tom Skeuse was putting different types of wood from his Calico Hardwoods inventory on them to get feedback/reactions at the time so there was no standard set by then.

I'm still not sure what it is.

[vaturkey]

Tom,

This is the wood on my Parker Reproduction serial number P-00036. Some of the guys on the Parker site thought it was Claro (so did I) but Brian Dudley thought it looked and might be English depending on the cut, if I remember correctly. Someone even opined French so who knows. I checked Calico hardwoods inventory samples online and it did look like it could be grade AA or AAA Fancy Grade French.

It has a really early prototype serial number so others thought that Tom Skeuse was putting different types of wood from his Calico Hardwoods inventory on them to get feedback/reactions at the time so there was no standard set by then.

I'm still not sure what it is.

Roger IMO its English. Many years ago I got a hold of Richard Skeuse and he told me that they had 5 different grades of wood on the Parker Reproductions. Some English and some Claro. At that time I gave him the serial number of the Repro 20 gauge I had and he looked it up and said it was grade 4 Claro. You might want to send him a PM on the Parker site and provide the serial number of your gun and see if he might look it up for you. That said, I'm not sure how often he goes to the Parker site as the last time he logged onto the Parker site was July of last year.