Two Barrel Set

[Researcher]

A couple of years ago, over in North Idaho, I looked at a 16-gauge, AE-Grade, 30-inch, 301690, that had gone to California Hardware, circa 1923. At some point, probably not too long after, it was likely back to Philadelphia for a set of 32-inch 20-gauge barrels that fit the breechballs perfectly.

Serial number 301227 is a 16-gauge DE-Grade that went to Bob Smith Sporting Goods. It was on the market a while back, fully refurbished, with a set of 20-gauge barrels that have the roll-stamping on the top that smacks of Mitzie to me. The original 16-gauge barrels have the engraved legend on the top typical of many D- & F-grades.

With the 20-gauge barrels in place --

[Silvers]

Yep Dave, easily done in the factory setting when fitting a rough/in the white 20g barrel assembly to a frame that had been furnished with 16g barrels. My post related to someone’s vision of making a two gauge set with 20g finished barrels from one Fox and trying to fit to an existing 16-gauge Fox.

[ROMAC]

Is it too far of an assumption to think that a 1 or 2 weight set of long 20 gauge barrels would have a better chance of fitting a 16 gauge frame finished for a set of 3 or 4 weight barrels?

[vaturkey]

Is it too far of an assumption to think that a 1 or 2 weight set of long 20 gauge barrels would have a better chance of fitting a 16 gauge frame finished for a set of 3 or 4 weight barrels?

I think your right Roger. I have looked at more then a few sets of "In the white" original Fox 20 gauge barrels and they are flat out beastly as far as mass goes. I'd imagine they could be made to fit a 16 gauge frame with lots of elbow grease. One would have however a pretty hefty gun when all was said and done unless of tremendous amount of barrel striking was done.

PS. For those who wonder what it costs to fit, strike, mat, engrave/roll stamp, as set of "in the white" barrels onto an existing frame, I was quoted a price of 2k last year and that didn't count the cost of the barrels themselves. Obviously something one should really give some serious thought to before attempting, unless one's wallet is exploding with cash.

[Jeff S]

PS. For those who wonder what it costs to fit, strike, mat, engrave/roll stamp, as set of "in the white" barrels onto an existing frame, I was quoted a price of 2k last year and that didn't count the cost of the barrels themselves. Obviously something one should really give some serious thought to before attempting, unless one's wallet is exploding with cash.[/quote]

Thanks for sharing the quote, and the cost doesn’t surprise me. Personally, I think it would be more fun to own two guns rather than creating a two barrel set, but to each his own.

[Silvers]

[snip]
Serial number 301227 is a 16-gauge DE-Grade that went to Bob Smith Sporting Goods. It was on the market a while back, fully refurbished, with a set of 20-gauge barrels that have the roll-stamping on the top that smacks of Mitzie to me. The original 16-gauge barrels have the engraved legend on the top typical of many D- & F-grades.

Hard to see on Dave's second pic of 301227 even when expanded but the proof stamp appears to be sRp/oval instead of the typical Savage-Utica SP/oval proof stamp. Mitzie’s work ..... maybe. I've seen that sRp/oval stamp before but don't recall the particulars, and I doubt Mitzie when working on his own would be using a recognized stamp to fake a factory proof. Those other small glyphs on the barrel flats also add to the mystery. Kind of interesting to speculate but nonetheless the 301227 barrel story is likely lost to the mists of history.

Back to fitting 20g barrels on frame furnished with a 16g gun; methinks the factory on order would have lathe profiled each rough turned tube so its breech would match the 16g frame, thence to the barrel assembler, then to matting, striking etc. The resulting 20g barrel set would of course be somewhat heavier than a 16g barrel set with a similar down-tube profile, but not that much heavier. And besides, the weight increase would start between the hands and along the entire run of the tubes, making for good gun swing dynamics. Kind of on the opposite end of the range as compared to ultra light Foxes that swing like buggy whips.

All this is JMO here gents. frank

[brushbuster]

A couple of years ago I picked up what was supposed to be a Philly 16 Ga sterly 2 barrel set 26 and 28 inch with matching numbers.

When I got it home I realized it was actually a 16 ga and 20 ga two barrel set with matching numbers.
The Cody letter indicated it started life as a 16 ga Brush model and made no mention of a second barrel.
Later that gun must have gone back to Savage as the 16 ga barrels now have the 2 3/4 stamp on it.
The 20 Ga barrels are also Philly barrels and do not bear the 2 3/4 stamp yet have 2 3/4 chambers. The serial number font is a little different on the 20 ga set so I assume the were added later. The 20 ga barrels are 28 inches and feel like they have a little more weight to them compared to my other 20 Ga sterly with 4 wt 28 inch barrels.

Kind of neat but I really wanted a 16 Ga with 28 inch barrels.