Fox Collectors

Our forefathers were primarily bird hunters and not clays shooters and they purchased mostly light weight 20's and 16's WHY ??

You must be thinking of well heeled New Englanders. Nobody in my family used anything but 12-gauges on a regular basis. First break with that was when those of us in the half of the family that made it west out of Minnesota, started shooting Doves in the Yakima Valley in 1962. My uncle Irv picked up a 20-gauge Wingmaster to match the 12-gauge he'd been using since they came out in 1950. Then in 1967 I made my first foray by ordering an Eusebio Arizaga 20-gauge H & H sidelock after Jack O'Connor's writing about his Arizaga. Then I got a Model 42 in 1970 and in 1971 started NSSA skeet shooting and it was full speed into smallbores.

Dave: I should qualify my statement, yes full size 12's ruled the market. But when you look at the the records for 20's and 16's a substantial number were sold in the shorter barrel lengths and most likely light weight guns. .

I agree with Frank, I have a English 2 inch 12ga that weighs 5lbs 8 oz. It feels great but is very whipping and hard to control on any crossing shot. For me a grouse gun between 6 1/4 & 6 1/2 lbs works the best.

fox-admin wrote: [snip] Our forefathers were primarily bird hunters and not clays shooters and they purchased mostly light weight 20's and 16's WHY ??

At least here in my part of the country our forefathers were mainly small game hunters out for a mixed bag of rabbits, squirrels, grouse, cock birds, woodcock, etc. Whatever he/they or Hector and the pack would scare out or up. Food as well as sport. Purist bird hunters with special-ordered featherweight SxS's were in the very small minority, mainly to be seen in the pages of fancy sporting mags. And on that mixed bag thought I think Fox marketed its small bore Sterlingworths for gents who wanted an easier carrying gun for day long hunts but not that interested in ducks. They were typically stocked with 2-7/8 - 3" drop as measured and the occasional one that came out at 3-1/8" WHY? Because the average citizen wasn't a dedicated trap shooter, skeet wasn't around until later, and those lower stocked guns shot mostly to point of aim for mixed game as found. I well remember old timers telling this young lad to cover the rabbit with the barrel(s) before firing, nothing like modern thinking with game guns stocked much higher and many hunters hitting the “coverts”.
frank

I think Frank is spot on. I recently (well 6 months ago) purchased a 16 gauge Sterly on line and was quite surprised to see it had a 3 1/8" DAH. That was the most drop I had even encountered on a Sterly of any gauge. Gun was Philly made. The few higher stocked Sterly's I've encountered were all Savage made guns and later production guns at that. The lightest graded Fox I have owned was 5 lb 10 oz and that was a very early 16 gauge A grade with extractors with 26" barrels with a snap on forearm. While I shot ok on Woodcock it was quite whippy and a tad muzzlelight and I thus didn't shoot it well on crossing birds. It got moved down the road. My sweet spot for 20 gauge Foxes is 5 lb 13-14 oz. I seem to do pretty well with those in the game fields.

I started shooting with a 16ga gun only because after the war my dad wanted a new gun, heard of a guy with two Savage autos for sale, and when they arrived they were 16's. Dad bought 'em both, one for him and one for my oldest brother. That gun came down to me when dad lost an eye in a hunting accident and quit hunting and it was the only gun I owned for years. When I decided I'd like to have a sxs, well naturally it had to be a 16. If those old Savages had been 12's I might be shooting mostly 12's today...

For the field I like a 12 at about 7lbs or a bit more, my 16's at around 6-1/2, and 20's around 6lbs. But as a guy who could certainly stand to loose a few pounds I never obsess about a few ounces on a shotgun !

The balance/dynamics of the gun have a lot to do with how well I can shoot it as well. Many of the "vintage" .410-bore doubles were built on larger receivers and have very heavy butt ends to the barrels, putting most of the weight of the guns "between the hands." I find my 5 3/4 pound Ithaca NID .410-bore is very hard for me to shoot with any degree of success. Just way too muzzle light.

My RBL .410 has a very tiny receiver and its fraction of an ounce over five pound weight is well distributed. I shoot it better than I should. Would probably be even better if I'd have gotten the beavertail forearm that I see on most. Mine may be one of very few done with straight grip, double triggers and slim forearm to match my other RBLs.

My 16 ga Sterlingworth with 26” barrels weights 6# 1 oz. I would have thought it was lighter. Feels light but it’s my grouse gun and carries nice all day and I shoot it pretty good. I have no idea what the dimensions without measuring.

My 20 ga Sterlingworth with 28” barrels weighs 5 pounds 15 ounces.
My 20 ga AE with 26” barrels weighs 5 pounds 10 ounces.

CE 20 ga. 28" 3wt. bbls 5-3/4 lbs

20 GA XE which passed thru A&F....... It's my belief that they lightened it there, notice barrel marking on the left tube. The gun was purchased for the daughter of an New York MD that was an avid sportsman back in the day. I purchased the gently used gun directly from her.
5# 7 oz.
tjw

That's a beauty, Tom.

Yeah, Tom - a beauty.

And some neat documentation.

B

Wow! That’s a dandy!

Tom, wonderful shotgun and provenance. If we were keeping score you've taken a commanding lead in this thread!!