a grade fox with 2 sets of barrels

lee r moege · Post by **lee r moege** » Sun May 03, 2009 4:49 pm

New kid on the block looking for prevoius owner[s] of a Fox A grade I bought at auction a couple weeks ago. It is ser # 202xx, which puts it in 1912 I believe. There are 2 sets of Krupp barrels with the same rollmarking as on the Fox home page. Set #1 is 28" choked Imp Mod/ Mod and has bright bores. Has the Fox Proof on the flats, and krupp essen on the bottom of the barrels. They are 4 weight. The flats have the stamp #1 under ther serial number as does the matching forend, however the bottom of the number is silver on both which I think means they were the original barrels and were remarked when the second set was fitted. The second set is serial numbered to the gun and both the barrels and matching forend are marked #2 with the finish intact indicating they were finished after marking. This set is 30" choked Full/ Xtra full. Some [kind ?] soul appears to have put some steel shot through the right barrel of the thight choked set and put 2 or 3 lateral scratched in teh barrel near the chamber end, other than that the bores are bright. I can see no dents or bulges in either set of barrels although I have yet to put a deep hole bore gage into them. The finish on both sets is probably 80% with most all wear at the muzzles where it rubbed a case sometime. The action has about 75% silvering case color with the bottom the thinnest of course. The wood has 90 years of minor dings but it also 70% plus. In fact the finish of case color and wood look like the early A grade on the home page. There are no cracks I can see in the butt or either forend, and there is no evidence it has been into unless, [miracle] some smith has correctly fitting screwdrivers. There is a Jostam pad getting hard but OK that probably isn't original either. The top lever is right of center a fair way, and I see no signs of TIG welding in the barrel lockups. The same kind soul who put the steel through it was also the one who electro-penciled his drivers liscence number on the trigger guard. If anyone has any further info on this piece I would like to hear from you. I was really thinking of a higher grade gun, and was suprised to see something of this configuration for sale here in Kansas. Next step, take it turkey hunting! Thanks! Lee.

Post by **fox-admin** » Sun May 03, 2009 6:24 pm

Welcome Lee. Sounds like you have found yourself a very nice early A grade two barrel set. Many Fox collectors and shooter believe the early A grade guns are the best value today in the world of vintage sxs's. The workmanship and the quality of wood is excellent coupled with Krupp barrels. Your gun is a late early A, by serial number 22000 or so the engraving style was change to the new style. Enjoy.

Silvers · Post by **Silvers** » Sun May 03, 2009 6:51 pm

Hello Lee and welcome. Your two barrel set sounds neat!

Just some additional thoughts beyond those offered by Fox-Admin. Regarding the bore scratches you might also check for an expanded muzzle(s) if you believe steel shot was fired in one set of barrels. The expansion is usually very subtle if only a few shells were fired, but a dial vernier or regular mike will tell the story. Measure the outside diameter at 1" increments beginning about 6" back from the muzzles. The diameter typically reduces as you get closer to the muzzles. But with some heavier barrels it stays constant or even increases a few thou right at the muzzle. But in no case should you read a quick expansion. If you don't see any sign of bulging, it might be cost effective to get the bore(s) honed by a competent barrelsmith. It's amazing what a few thousands of honing will remove. I once had an high end over/under that someone had scratched up deeply with a homemade cleaning rod. I had Briley do .003" of honing which totally removed the scratches.

The electric penciling of the trigger guard can possibly be removed by buffing, re-engraving, and the tg then reblued. I've had similar work done a few times now. Silvers

Twice Barrel · Post by **Twice Barrel** » Sun May 03, 2009 8:47 pm

Lee you just never know what is going to show up here in Kansas. I have found two very nice Fox guns here myself. A very nice 16 gauge AE single trigger with beaver tail forend I am sure was someones prized Skeet gun found in Wichita and a very high condition 12 gauge Sterlingworth with 32 inch barrels found in Topeka.

If you are looking for a previous owner and you believe the gun is local you may have some luck tracking him down through the Kansas Department of Revenue with the driver license number. Use of the dreaded electro-pencil didn't come into vogue until the 1960s so you may be in luck establishing provenance. Of course a Letter from Mr. Callahan would be a great help as well. Good Luck

Researcher · Post by **Researcher** » Sun May 03, 2009 11:07 pm

A guy in a little gun shop in Manhatten, Kansas, showed me a 32-inch barrel 20-gauge Sterlingworth, but wouldn't sell it, when I was out to Kansas hunting down around Marion, about 20 years ago. I'd say that still the northeast quarter of the country is the best bet for finding nicer doubles. With our homes near Spokane and in Kodiak, my collection sure hasn't grown like it did while I was in the Virginia suburbs of Washington, DC.

Twice Barrel · Post by **Twice Barrel** » Mon May 04, 2009 10:21 am

Dave the 20 gauge with the 32 inch barrels is still in Manhattan. I stop by to check on it's well-being a couple times a year and it's still not for sale.

lee r moege · Post by **lee r moege** » Mon May 04, 2009 11:51 am

I will for sure check the barrels for pregnancy. I bought this to shoot and perhaps restore some time. I have had several Foxes in the past and restocked some , but thought I would hold off till either the gun or I am worn more. Same with taking the drivers Lisc. off. Does anyone know of someone in the Kansas City area that can recut the engraving without mortgaging the house? I used to have an engraver [Greg Barnett} in Paola, Ks but don't know if he still is doing it. My wife works for the State so I am going to have her look at the drivers liscence number. I has a pre-29 S&W with the same affliction that turned out to have belonged to a high ranking state official.

Twice Barrel · Post by **Twice Barrel** » Mon May 04, 2009 12:18 pm

Contact these folks. They may be able to provide some recommendations.

GRS Tools
900 Overlander Road
Emporia, KS 66801
Phone: 620-343-1084
Toll Free: 800-835-3519
Fax: 620-343-9640
grs@grstools.com

lee r moege · Post by **lee r moege** » Thu May 07, 2009 1:12 pm

I forgot about Don Glaser's company, I,m sure they can give me a name. I checked the barrels for pregnancy Silvers, and am now ready to accept the fact that I got a good solid old gun for the money. The tight set shows .804 within .001 on both sides for the last 6". I can't quite make out the barrel weigh stamping but I think it's either 2 or 3. The second, more open set, is .795 within .001/.002 the last 6". These are plainly marked 4 weight. I think the scratches are from something besides steel shot so will take a hone shot sometime. I plan to take the gun turkey hunting this weekend and will try some copper plated 4's in a 3 3/4 dram load.

Fox Collectors

a grade fox with 2 sets of barrels

a grade fox with 2 sets of barrels

Thanks for the tip Silvers

thanks Silvers and Twice barrel