Reloading Assistance

[Larry Allen]

Hello. I'm new to the group and Ansley H. Fox shotguns. I would like some help in reloading shells. I have a 1933 Grade A Fox, I'm told it is chambered for 2 1/2" shells. Chromox steel barrels stamped. I'm looking for low vel. loads. I'm not in trap shooting or anything. Just want to enjoy. What I have is a MEC 600 Jr., haven't bought the short kit yet, but will. The bar was set for 1 1/4 oz. and a 36 powder bushing. (2 3/4" shells). I know I need another bar. Also have COMPETITION Ramshot powder, found in an old Ace Hardware store, 2 -12 oz. containers. I do not have any 2 1/2" shells (probably need to cut down 2 3/4") with a kit. I believe I would like Cheddite shells with Cheddite 209 primers (can't find any). Also considering 7 1/2 shot (can't find any). Soo - I think I need 7/8 oz. shot, and Number 27 bushing for about 17.5 grains or #29 bushing for 18.9 grains of Ramshot. I believe I would like to try "roll crimping" rather than fold crimping. Looking at a 4 pin (get a better roll ?). Nobody that I have contacted so far has any ballistic info. for me other than the old Western Shotshell Data chart. Does have grains and PSI, but I don't know if that is for 2 3/4" shells, etc.. Since Hodgson bought them, I called them and they were no help that will work with me. I have some basic knowledge but I'm in over my head on what can be fired in my Fox and the associated ballistics. I will also be having some restoration work done, stock refinished and slow rust blueing of the barrels. (have someone lined up). All of which has nothing to do with my question. Just explaining "the new guy". Please help, thank you, Larry (carnut)

[Researcher]

Are you talking a 12-gauge gun? Except for a very few ordered for 2 5/8-inch shells all standard Ansley H. Fox 12-gauge doubles were intended for 2 3/4-inch shells. The Fox policy, like Parker Bros., was to hold their chambers an eighth inch shorter than the intended shells. The belief was that upon firing the mouth of the shell extending into the forcing cone a bit improved the gas seal and hence patterns. By 1933, SAAMI specs were in effect. While no one can tell you over the internet what ammunition may or may not be safe in a given gun, any 1933 vintage 12-gauge Fox in sound condition should handle any SAAMI spec lead loads. Whether one wants to subject 89-year-old wood to the recoil of high velocity 1 1/4-ounce loads is another question.

I have been shooting 2 3/4-inch 12-gauge shells in my Ansley H. Fox guns for over fifty years. When the need arises, I've used high velocity loads like Remington Express or Western Super-X, but the great bulk of my shooting has been with 1200 fps, 7/8 or 1-ounce loads.

[quail4jake]

Solid advice from Researcher and very comforting to see that he uses 7/8oz @ 1200 fps as that has become my favorite load for our old SXS. You can load those to "low pressure" (<8000 psi) and those have been the most chronographically and pattern consistent loads that I make. Some folks have their forcing cones reamed to a nice gentle slope which usually takes the 2 5/8 chamber out to 2 3/4 when measured with a SAAMI gauge but as Researcher pointed out the 2 5/8 measured in a Fox or Parker 12 is really a 2 3/4 chamber. Some folks choose not to alter their vintage Fox. My best advice is to use RST shells to start and if there is some question about chamber length use the "best" grade RST which is 2 1/2". As you progress through the shotshell handloading learning curve you may find that loading shorter shells is a PIA and that standardizing to 2 3/4" eliminates mechanical quandaries and hull sorting issues. The first time I ran a 2 1/2" 20ga through my Hornady 366 set up for 2 3/4" that ended my short shell adventures. Anyway listen to Researcher and buy Morris' shells, enjoy your Fox! Best of luck, RB.

[Mike of the Mountain]

Larry, get a copy of ADVANTAGES by Ballistic Products. That is the source for reloading data in all the funky and standard chamberings for shotshells. I load 2 3/4" and 2 1/2" shells in 12g and use two presses. A MEC 600 JR with a short kit for 2 1/2" and a Spolar gold for 2 3/4". You can easily load 1 oz or 7/8 oz in either. Both shells require different wads. Shot is easily found, I use #8 and #7 1/2 for clays. I do have some in 6,5, 4 and 10 for hunting. Powder and primers, good luck. Powder seems to be becoming a bit more available. Primers can be found but you'll be paying more than 1 1/2 years ago. That said, you can find powder and primers online on most gun sites. You will probably pay 3X more than from a retailer but if you want powder and/or primers, you'll have to pay the piper. It is what it is. I just had 5K of the RIO 209 primers here that I sold for $80/1000 and that was cheap! Best wishes in your new pursuit. Message or email me if you need any info.