Remington Game Loads 16 gauge for short chambered Fox

[vaturkey]

I know these black hulls are a bit shorter then many others once fired and it fact may be darn close to 2 5/8". In the opinion of the forum would they be safe to fire in a restocked Philly Fox with short chambers? I have no idea on the pressure. Also, I have somehow uncovered almost a case of B&P 16 gauge F2 Classic 29 Gram shells marked 67mm in the ammo storage locker. Apparently I'm a bit of a hoarder. Ditto the above question on Remington as it relates to the B&P Classic. I've got two short chambered Philly 16 gauges that are in the process of being restocked.

Double PS. I've got 3 flats of RST 16 gauge ammo which is all I shoot in my short chambers 16's gauges that have not been restocked, because I was concerned about beating up 100 year old wood. However, it makes since to use the Remington's and B&Ps if possible. Not talking about hi volume shooting, just as hunting loads. Thanks

[DSizemore]

Tom, I can only speak with experience about the Remingtons with the black hulls... game loads. I have used these for many years in everything I own with no noticeable issues. Like you, I know nothing about pressure so take this for what it’s worth. Additionally, I once patterned every 16 gauge shell I could find through my grouse guns, a couple of which had short chambers. These game loads patterned far and above better than anything, including the RSTs. My patterning tests were conducted using an actual 30” circle and counting holes and gaps.

[Silvers]

Tom, I've owned Fox 16 bores with chambers as short as 2-3/8" and the Remington Game Load (black) hulls generally measure a hair over 2-5/8" long. Thus about 1/8" overlap into the cone. The Game Loads are 1-ounce at 1200 speed and that makes for some recoil with a lightweight Fox in known to be safe condition, and they will of course print differently than let's say RST's with 7/8 ounce at 1125 or 1150. Some time ago I had a 16-gauge chamber reamer made to Fox/Utica 2-3/4" chamber dimensions and when I'm shooting those Rem Game Loads while hunting they're in a chamber-lengthened Fox or Lefever. A no brainer in my 16-gauge Winchester Model 21. All this is before I decided to get into reloading for 16-gauge and by coincidence a new MEC 16 press will be delivered today, snow permitting. And I've already gotten a good supply of wads for 7/8 and 1-ounce.

For 16-gauge in particular, I want to be decoupled from the commercial loaded shell market.

frank

[vaturkey]

Thanks all who commented. I just checked 3 16 gauge Foxes in the inventory and all had 2 3/8" chambers. Seems like I will stay with RST with the exception of a couple of shots with the game loads come turkey season. Even before that I'll stick them on the patterning board and see what's up. Been hankering to kill a turkey with the 32" barrels on my 2 barrel 16 gauge D grade upgrade. This may be the year.

[Researcher]

For years I shot the 16-gauge Remington Game Loads when they were marked 2 1/2 drams equiv., 1 ounce, and was quite satisfied. Then I got two flats that were marked 1200 fps and they seemed pretty harsh even in fairly heavy guns. I then came into a bunch of purple Federals and those are the hulls I've been reloading with the 7/8 ounce in the Down Range wads.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns- ... =101596400

I originally misspoke above by saying 2 3/4 dram equiv. I went to the old Remington catalogs and the 16-gauge Game Loads were 2 1/2 dram equiv. through the 2002 Remington catalog. They started listing them at 1200 fps in the 2003 Remington catalog.

[vaturkey]

For years I shot the 16-gauge Remington Game Loads when they were marked 2 3/4 drams equiv., 1 ounce, and was quite satisfied. Then I got two flats that were marked 1200 fps and they seemed pretty harsh even in fairly heavy guns. I then came into a bunch of purple Federals and those are the hulls I've been reloading with the 7/8 ounce in the Down Range wads.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns- ... =101596400

Them shells are a tad expensive for sure. Just looked and many are labeled 2 1/2 dram 1 oz 16 gauge. Seems to be pretty light load. These are more like 20 years old.

[Silvers]

I've used and have been happy with these Remmy 16-gauge Game Load shells for many years. Incidentally 1-ounce at 1200 speed in 16-gauge is almost but not quite a 2-3/4 DE shell.

Then about 2 years ago was running low and bought 3 flats from an on-line company for something like $75. per, plus a small flat rate shipping fee. Several months later I got into a new flat and started getting lots of pierced primers while clays practice shooting with two Foxes and a Model 12 pump gun. I saw that Remington had switched primers (see last pic). I called to Remington Cust Service in Lonoke and talked with a gal who asked me to send some pics, and several days later she emailed back, she was sending three Fedex call tags and to return all the shells for replacement. I due course I got three replacement flats but some of the boxes had regular Remington primers and others had the replacement that was prone to piercing. I called back and the contact gal said she'd investigate and get back to me. She replied and said that's all they had, no more in inventory and the new production run is "seasonal" and wasn't scheduled until the next year in anticipation of dove season. So much for modern just in time production.

Since then I've sorted out the shells with Remington primers and use them in my double-guns. And I had a spare firing pin for that Model 12 Winchester and shortened it so I could use the alternate primers with the copper colored outer ring without them piercing. As i recall I shortened that firing pin tip by about 20 thou.

Long story and I suppose it macht nichts as old stock 16 ga Game Loads are just about dried up and as posted by Dave the scalpers are out there for those desperate for 16 shells. Also, Federal the new owner of Remington is just now trying to start up the Lonoke ammo plant and who knows what they'll be making in 16-gauge? Hopefully it will be in a compression formed unibody hull and not with a separate base wad. Anyway I'm happy I kept all those black colored empties. And now you know one more reason why I'm getting into reloading for 16's.

frank

newer primer on the right

[3birddogs]

I've still got 8 cases of RGL game loads in 7 1/2, 8's and i cases of 6's--probably 20 yrs old, some still have the tag of 29.99/case others $39.99/case. They used to be all I shot until I started loading 7/8 oz in 2 1/2" cheddites. Probably have 4-500 RGL empties. I shot them in all but my damascus 16's. never thought the recoil was excessive, but certainly was more in my A 16 Philly gun than in my heavier Utica 16 SWs. Usually shoot them in my 1 frame 16 Parker and a 4E 16 Ithaca.
Those RGL hulls make sweet reloads using 20/28, DR16 wads, and 7/8 0z---shouldnt get much recoil from those.

[16gaugefan]

Where can I get some 2.5 in 16 ga game loads in 7.5 8 9 shot size
can anyone help

[vaturkey]

Where can I get some 2.5 in 16 ga game loads in 7.5 8 9 shot size
can anyone help

I've seen them a various Walmarts recently. I think about $8.99 per box.

[bbman3]

In several Walmart stores in Georgia near me i have never seen a 16 gauge shell, Academy carries them. Bobby

[eightbore]

Tom, what brand are the 2 1/2" 16s you have seen at Walmart? I have my 16 gauge PW 375 sitting in reserve, waiting for my black Remington factory loads to run out. I will load a light 3/4 ounce load in the black empties for my Damascus guns, but I still shoot the black factory loads in stout fluid steel doubles. My 16 gauge Model 12 Trap Grade guns are short chambered and don't work with any 2 3/4" shells.

[vaturkey]

Tom, what brand are the 2 1/2" 16s you have seen at Walmart? I have my 16 gauge PW 375 sitting in reserve, waiting for my black Remington factory loads to run out. I will load a light 3/4 ounce load in the black empties for my Damascus guns, but I still shoot the black factory loads in stout fluid steel doubles. My 16 gauge Model 12 Trap Grade guns are short chambered and don't work with any 2 3/4" shells.

Bill they are marked as 2 3/4" but they are Remington Game Loads. I did not buy any as I had no need. I'm actually not sure they are black in color because no need.