1937 AE or Fox Skeeter

Witty1 · Post by **Witty1** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 4:22 pm

Hey Fox Guys,

Bought a Fox 12 GA which I thought was an AE, with vent rib, ejectors, Beaver Tail, and Kautzky SST. The engraving looks like an A Grade. I really go for the small bores but this 12 GA seemed very unusual. The add said Savage Fox and someone coated the receiver with liquid bluing, so it looked like a Savage B (311). Well thinking it's kind of a cool shooter, AE, SST, so I bought it.

The barrels 28 inches long, are number 3s, 2 ivory bead sights, barrel flats are marked SP in a circle, acorn mark, and S/N 34XXX. Bought a repro 1936 Savage Fox catalog and it seems to be on page 6, Fox Skeeter. Have sent for a Callahan letter and should have it soon.

With all my searching for Foxs this is the first like this I have found. What can you tell me about "The Fox Skeeter" from Savage?
Best Regards

eightbore · Post by **eightbore** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 4:42 pm

We can tell you that it will sell for more money when you sell it than when you bought it. One scarce gun.

Researcher · Post by **Researcher** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 5:37 pm

That Repro 1936 catalogue with the "Skeeter" isn't a 1936. Who knows what pieces they made it from?!?

Savage went nuts trying to sell a few clay target guns during the early 1930s, changing models/grades almost every year.

The only price lists to show the "Skeeter" were 1931, but Savage used the same Lynn Bogue Hunt black cover retail catalogue which shows the "Skeeter" from 1931 to 1934. As pictured in the retail catalogue the "Skeeter" looks like an A-/AE-Grade with a ramped vent rib and a schnabel beavertail forearm. The "Skeeter" was listed on the undated (1931) retail price list at $108. The reason we know the undated retail price list with the "Skeeter" is 1931, is that it matches up with the January 15th 1931 Wholesale Price List. Wholesale the "Skeeter" was $90.75, and the Fox-Kautzky SST was $25.50 wholesale and $28.90 retail extra. By January 25, 1932, the "Skeeter" was replaced by the "Fox Trap Grade" at $105 wholesale and $125 retail with the same $25.50 wholesale and $28.90 retail for the SST. The "Fox Trap Grade" was made either as a Trap or a Skeet gun. The "Fox Trap Gun" went up $10 for 1933 but the single trigger went down to $19 wholesale and $23 retail. The Trap Grade is still listed on the 1934 retail price list at $135, but is not in the 1934 Wholesale Price List.

In 1934 Savage introduced the "Fox Special" Skeet Grade and then in 1935 it got some scroll engraving and became the SP-/SPE-Grade Skeet & Upland Game Gun. Also in 1935 they introduced the straight gripped Fox-Sterlingworth Skeet & Upland Game Gun. In the 1936 Wholesale Price List they show an SPR-Grade which appears to be the old "Fox Trap Grade" but with a field/skeet beavertail forearm instead of the big shnable Trap beavertail.

loggy · Post by **loggy** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 6:24 pm

Dave,
I wish you would write a book! Always great information.
John

Researcher · Post by **Researcher** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:21 pm

Bye the bye, these oddball clay target guns often languished in inventory and actually sold years after they were listed in the catalogues and price lists.

MARSHFELLOW · Post by **MARSHFELLOW** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:36 pm

Witty1, Please tell us what the letter says when you get it .....I am interested in knowing. Neat gun! I get a kick out of VR Foxes.

Witty1 · Post by **Witty1** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 4:50 pm

Hi Marshfellow,

Will post the letter as soon as I receive it. Hunted with the gun last weekend, with my triples and Santa and took these pictures. Sorry the pictures are blurred, will do better with the new camera Santa is bringing me. Tried to load images just can't get it to work. Quite pleased with the pattern it shoots, great for Chuckers and Pheasants.

Merry Christmas to all you Fox Fans!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/62102023@N00/3119210916

http://www.flickr.com/photos/62102023@N00/3119211298

eightbore · Post by **eightbore** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 6:10 pm

Did this great gun come from a local retail gun store or from an individual? We love to hear gun acquisition stories, that is, unless I am telling them.

Witty1 · Post by **Witty1** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:03 pm

Hey Fox Fans,
Got the Callahan letter and it confirmed what Researcher and others came up with. 1931 Skeeter Grade as shown in the 1931 reprint catalog that Galazan sells as a reprinted 1937 catalog. You guys know your Foxes.

Interesting enough Mr Callahan gave me a complimentory "hang tag'" that has a tear off to contact CSMC if I would like to sell, never got one before. The gun was made in the Utica factory and retained by Savage Arms and finally shipped to the Offices in NYC. Second card no date sold to Clem Hurst? Wonder who he was?

The vent rib is very unusual, the engraving is the same as an A, ejectors, the SST is not in the letter. The receiver and barrels were all done in a paint on Black Blueing maybe Black Magic, but cames off the receiver nicely. There is a few small spots splashed on the wood so it's paintrd on. So it was restored some long time ago, don't know why perople do what they do, but maybe helped pressure it. Will have to show it to Dewey if he finishes my 20 ga. would ba a good one to restore. No case color but as you can see A Grade engraving is crisp, no rust, or bangs, identical to my other A.

The Gun is so much fun to shoot and the SST is a pure joy, with these chokes the birds don't stand a chance. I wonder how many of these are out there? I've seen real Skeeters with the Skeeter ingraving but not with the A style. What do you think?

Best Regards

MARSHFELLOW · Post by **MARSHFELLOW** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:05 am

Witty1,

how is your gun marked on the watertable??...grade stamp??? Just curious. Congrats on the letter.

Silvers · Post by **Silvers** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:57 am

Witty, what a great gun. Thanks for sharing. I really like those chokes IC and IM and especially their arrangement, IC in the left barrel. I'm sure you know a lot of accomplished target shooters like to shoot the left barrel first because of less torque effect than shooting the right barrel. I don't know if all Skeeters were done that way, left barrel more open, I never chanced across one myself. That's why I have to get clones made up from guns that are being parted out.

Great stock dimensions too. I see you're in Eastern PA and referenced work DV is doing for you. Maybe we can get together to shoot some time? If you're interested please send a PM. Congrats on your find! Frank

Researcher · Post by **Researcher** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:18 am

Nice find. Even though the picture in the catalogues of the "Skeeter" shows a ramped vent rib and a schnabel beavertail, this gun and the only other lettered "Skeeter" that I've handled has a flat vent rib like this gun and the Field/Skeet style beavertail.

abner · Post by **abner** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:41 am

Hello Witty1:

I have a 1931 Skeeter, shipped Aug. 5th, 1931. The serial # 346XX, very close to yours. Yours must have been shipped back to the factory for the SST change. The dimensions of my gun are: 28" choked Imp. Cyl(R) & Mod. (L). 12 ga. 14 1/8" Length of pull, 1 5/8 drop at comb, 2 1/2 drop at heel, full grip., weight is the same at 7 1/4 lbs. Notes: Lyman Ivory sights, Single trigger-center position, Beavertail forend, English type, Ventilated rib, Jostan pad.

The big difference is the engraving, my engraving looks more like an early A grade, or like the later "H" grade guns, than the engraving on the gun you have. My gun was shipped to E. K. Tryon and then returned to "stock" and sold as a "used office sample" on Nov. 25, 1931.

How is the watertable marked on your gun?

Witty1 · Post by **Witty1** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:23 pm

Hi Guys,

Thanks once again for all the great information. Marshfellow and Abner the watertable has a SP in a circle, serial #, and the acorn stamp. No Fox Proof or anything else?

Best Regards

MARSHFELLOW · Post by **MARSHFELLOW** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:50 pm

Witty1,

Thanks for the reply. Are those markings on the barrel flats or on the watertable (frame)?? I'm used to seeing what you describe on the barrels. Interesting stuff. tjw