Fox hinge pins

[Stan Hillis]

Out of curiosity, not because of any particular project, are the hinge pins on Foxes hardened? Most doubles do have hardened ones, but I've been told that not all do.

If they are, which I expect to be the answer, were they hardened as a part of the action case hardening process, with the pin already in place?

Thanks, SRH

[Silvers]

Stan, I'm sure Fox hinge pins were dressed off, engraved as per Grade and in place when the frame was case or cyanide hardened. Kind of interesting to think about that, a (relatively) soft barrel hook wearing against a surface hardened hinge pin. frank

[Stan Hillis]

That's what I envisioned as having happened at the Fox factories, but it's good to hear your opinion, Frank.

I've been reading some very old threads on another doublegun forum about rejointing an action that is off face. Strange how many people are insistent that replacing the hinge pin is the only proper way to do it. Most, I think, are parroting something they've read in some book or magazine, and have never given serious thought to the fact that the hook will sustain most of the wear, by far, because the pin is so much harder. That is, as long as the pin was hardened when the gun was built. I just didn't know about Fox guns.

Thanks for the reply, I appreciate it.

SRH

[Brian Dudley]

The hinge pin on a Fox would be case hardened, right along with the rest of the frame that it is installed into.

[MARSHFELLOW]

........well, Exhibit A.... I owned a bunch of unfinished frames once. Sorry these pics are poor but I took a picture off one of my old laptops where the pictures are. Anyway, the hinge pins are in the frames waaayyyy before they were finished.

[Silvers]

Thanks Tom for posting, confirms what I and Brian replied.

frank

[MARSHFELLOW]

............ absolutely!!

[Stan Hillis]

Absolutely, thanks so much Tom.

SRH

[eightbore]

There is really no reason for the lug surface to be hard, at least not as hard as the pin, if the pin happens to be hardened. The minimal movement when opening the gun should result in almost no wear over the years if the surfaces are kept fairly clean and a bit wet with oil or grease.

[Stan Hillis]

I agree, Bill. I doubt that barrel hooks were ever hardened.

SRH

[Brian Dudley]

There may be some exceptions, but I would say that it would be the case for nearly all other makers too. The hinge pin is case hardened right along with the rest of the frame. And the barrel hook is softer material.

[Foxnut]

So based upon these observations then would the solution to an “off face” situation be to add material to the barrel lug/hook and the refinish for proper fit? I have seen that work done and read threads on that before. Thanx - Brett

[spyder]

I don’t have the expertise to take sides in this, but this piece takes the opposite position:

https://vicknairgunsmithing.blogspot.co ... ch%20Stuff

[Silvers]

Stan, I'm sure Fox hinge pins were dressed off, engraved as per Grade and in place when the frame was case or cyanide hardened. Kind of interesting to think about that, a (relatively) soft barrel hook wearing against a surface hardened hinge pin. frank

The hinge pin on a Fox would be case hardened, right along with the rest of the frame that it is installed into.

?????? Unless I misread, Dewey states the same thing in his blog, i.e., case hardened along with the frame. frank

[spyder]

Thanks Frank. I was responding to Foxnut's question about repairing off face guns. At the end of the article Vicknair says that the case hardening of the pin is not sufficiently thick to prevent deformation and that the only solution to an off face gun is to repair/replace the hinge pin.

Again, I'm not picking a fight or taking sides. I just read Vicknair's blog (which I find entertaining if nothing else) and remembered this thread and thought it was interesting.