Smith Suggestions?

[Fox20obsessed]

Forgot to add that all of the screws of this x-grade upgraded 16 gauge were “boogered” by the illustrious “Del” during his $500 hoax job.
-Matt Eisel
My name is Matt Eisel, I am not going to hide behind some name on here.

[Stan Hillis]

Just curious, Matt. Why would he have messed with all the screws on the gun just to fit a set of barrels? I'm missing something here.

SRH

[Fox20obsessed]

Stan,
Your guess is as good as mine because I asked him not to touch a single screw prior to sending him the gun and he agreed and then upon receipt of the Frankenstein job he insisted that he had to completely dismantle the gun to perform the work. I am not a fool, I know damned well that disassembly of the action was completely and totally unnecessary for this repair. I’m not asking anyone to believe me, but why on earth would I join this forum just to highlight this??? I have a lot of time and money invested in my 20 gauge fox collection...I simply do not want anyone else to get scammed by this “gunsmith”. I use the term “gunsmith” loosely.
-Matt

[glassman48]

Matt,
Did Del's friend do the work, or Del? You may want to reread your post, if his friend did the work, and your accusing him (Del) your fight may be more with the other guy. Maybe Del was the "middleman" in this, I am not sure, but you might want to be sure before you post stuff. I had nothing but a great visit with Del, he spent close to an hour with me, did not charge me anything, and he found a "thin" spot on a barrel of a shotgun I had just purchased that in his opinion was not safe to shoot. I called the guy who sold me the gun, and I was already planning on taking a beating on the gun, but I was also very calm and explained everything to the seller that I just found out from Del. The guy I had just purchased the gun from took it back. I had e mailed him before purchasing the gun and I told him I knew nothing of old guns, and I wanted something that would be considered safe to shoot. The seller remembered that conversation, and took the gun back no questions asked. I do not like "recommending" people in general, there are other well known gunsmiths that people have had "problems" with also. I simply told what I knew of one meeting, and Del had so many guns there at his shop, I don't know how he could ever finish them all which is why I stated what I did about how long a person might have to wait. I have heard of other customers having to wait years to get work done from other gunsmiths. I wish you the best with your gun, I hope you can get it corrected someday, and congratulations on all your shotguns, it sounds like you have quite a collection started.

[glassman48]

Matt,
I did not see that last post you just put up, I was busy typing mine, so you just answered one of my questions. Anyways, good luck with your gun collecting.

[Fox20obsessed]

Glassman,
I spoke directly with Del. He probably talked you out of your gun because he was unable to fix it.
I’m not accusing anyone of anything, I just know what I paid and what I received.
Do not make this out to be a hate mail...simply sharing my experience.
-Matt

[glassman48]

matt,
He used a hosford gauge and showed me where one spot on the barrel was much thinner than the rest of the barrel. I think he told me it was .015? Anyways, he thought it was unsafe to shoot in his opinion. I just wanted a gun safe to shoot without having to do a lot more work on it. It was not a gun worth putting a lot of extra money into. Again, congratulations on your collection, that one gun you pictured in here is something else.

[Fox20obsessed]

Thanks for the kind words gents, Glassman I agree about .015 being thin...too many good ones out there to risk it with an unsafe gun.

[Silvers]

Thanks Matt for posting your experience.

While at shows and shoots over the years I've had many gents show me their Fox or other vintage double gun that was put back on the face or otherwise repaired or restored by gunsmith Tom, Dick or Harry, and so often the work is sub-par (at least to my eye) and I bite my tongue so-to-speak. If the gent is happy that's good, I guess. But lesser workmanship can propagate when the gent posts what a wonderful job Tom, Dick or Harry did on their gun, and that in turn "sucks in" more potential customers some of whom will be disappointed.

All of this has convinced me that some people just have lower standards, and others have limited background themselves and think the work must be good if Mr X did it. Another aspect is how some gents are “dazzled” by simple tools like wall thickness gauges and bore mikes as demonstrated in some ‘smith’s shop, or by tech terms heard over the phone, and they think, hey this guy knows his stuff.

Now mind you, I am not painting all double gun gunsmiths with the same brush. There are some good men out there who do superior quality work, but unfortunately a call or two beforehand to discuss your requirements is not proof positive some ‘smith can do what he says he can.

Best by far are word of mouth 'smith recommendations from solid Fox (or other maker) guys, as compared with reading some gunsmith's name in an internet posting. But many serious Foxers will keep their sources close to the chest for fear of getting their 'smith overloaded and with even longer queue times which in turn affects them on future work. Hence they will avoid giving reccos except to close friends who share their passion.

frank

[Jeff S]

Excellent "wrap-up". What might be considered great work by one customer, might be considered marginal work by another customer. Thanks Frank.

[vaturkey]

Guess I need to rethink my recommendation on Del. I have two friends who had work done by him and they were quite pleased. I have not, as the gunsmiths who work on my Foxes all live in Pa and they are very very good. I'm not giving their names as both are up to the eyeballs in work and one smith is no longer doing repair work at all unless its part of upgrade or complete restocking. There are many strong recommendations of Del on Doublegunshop.com, but I know of at least one gunsmith out west who had a great recommendation until the day he didn't. I know one thing, every person who calls himself or herself a gunsmith needs to stand behind their work and make it right. After all, we are the one's who pay their salaries.

[Fin2Feather]

Matt, what was the smith's reasoning for returning the gun still loose? I mean, a thing is either fixed or it isn't. Not much excuse for buggering screws either; if the gun had to be taken apart at least do it right. A sad tale indeed. It's a shame that any person in such a specialized market won't stand behind his work. Whether he performed the work himself of farmed it out is moot; it was still performed under his banner and he should see to it that it's made right. I'm lucky I guess; I haven't had much experience with having guns worked on, but I did have one instance where the repairman had the gun three times and kept at it until he got it right. And no additional charges. That's the way it should be IMO.

[Brian Dudley]

Just curious, Matt. Why would he have messed with all the screws on the gun just to fit a set of barrels? I'm missing something here.

SRH

It is far easier to fit a set of barrels on a disassembled action. Or at least with one that the lockup has been removed. Then parts are added as the process goes along.

It was unrealistic for Matt to ask that the screws not be touched with a job like that. And also unrealistic for the smith to say that he would not touch them.

Now... if perfect screws are messed up in the process, they should have been replaced. So that the gun was not returned that way.

[Stan Hillis]

Thanks, Brian. I appreciate that reply.

Best, SRH

[Fox20obsessed]

So the original title for this blog is smith suggestions....whether my request to leave the gun assembled was unrealistic or not as per Mr. Dudley’s comment Del had agreed during our discussion prior to me sending him the gun that the screws would not be touched. I am not going to comment on the work that was performed or my extreme disappointment when I received the gun back any longer on this thread because I was simply trying to tell about an experience to save others headache.
That being said, I have had Mr. Dudley do both checkering and engraving work for me in the past and his work was both top notch in execution and also the gun was returned in exactly the timeframe we discussed. Mr. Dudley is a man of his word and is also one of the best IMO. There is my two cents for a smith suggestion and also my last comment on this thread.