20 Gauge 7/8 oz VS 1 oz Sterlingworth

[Johnm11]

Tom was correct. Imagine that. Out of the 18 pictures I took only 1 shows some of the repair. I just need to get a real camera. The photo show the added reinforcement. What it doesn't show is the epoxy on the other side. The repair looks ok to my untrained eye. This gun will never see full power loads. If it breaks firing low pressure shells I'll just have to deal with that.

[vaturkey]

Interesting repair. Here is a picture of a staple repair. One of the long serving members here (Frank S.) provided this photo to the best of my knowledge. I have had a failure or two of my own guns in this same area and they were repaired using acraglass by a pro.

[Silvers]

Thanks Tom for the reference but that's not my pic; in addition to a cross-pin it looks like some goof gouged out the "pyramid" that draws the stock head to the frame when all the screws are tightened. That waffle staple is factory original and was done by Fox on some but not all stocks, to reinforce the web from lateral pressure as in a fall while hunting etc.

Readers, let's remember that most Fox small bores were built for upland hunting and are too light and hardly suitable for sustained use as clay target guns. But nowadays it seems many gents will shoot them anyway while using low velocity/payloads for low recoil, and that's just fine because clays are not living and breathing creatures that suffer when only wounded. Better to leave powderpuff loads at home and use traditional heavier HV loads while hunting ….. most can't or won't resist poking at far away game especially during a slow day.

frank

[Jim Cloninger]

AMEN, Frank! Jim

[Jeff S]

Agreed! I have a 1918 20 ga. "brush" model with ejectors. I love it, but it's a pretty "petite" gun and I just use it at Hausmann's and the occasional jaunt in the woods on sunny Fall days.

[Johnm11]

Interesting Tom that the staple is factory. The one picture I had didn't really show the amount of repair that had been done after it left the factory. I have a video and might be able to get a couple of screen shots.

The RST shells are due to arrive today and I'm exited to shoot the 20 gauge. But it may not be this weekend.

I have to make the decision if I'm going to load shot shell or not. I load for rifle and pistol and I'm not sure I can afford the space and effort for as much as I shoot shotgun. I'll make that decision after I have settled on a load from RST that the gun and I like and see what a lifetime of shells might cost me.

[Johnm11]

Frank, Jim and Jeff,

I appreciate your commentary on ethical use of the older guns and low pressure shells. I had not considered the ramifications.

So here is my story on the side by side. I have been a terrible shotgunner for more than 40 years. My motto has been 'One box, one bird' and that was on a good day. I was so frustrated with my performance on dove that I decided that if I couldn't hit a bird with my modern shotgun I could at least look good while missing birds. I found a fairly nice Fox Model B in 16 gauge for $280 that I had the same success with last year. I don't remember how many boxes of shells I shot last year, but I was 0 for the season though I didn't hunt much due to work. But at least I looked good while missing. So this winter I found a Fox Sterlingworth at a gun show that I traded my Model B and a 20 gauge Winchester 1200 for straight up. I ended up with about $400 invested in the 12 gauge Sterlingworth and it is a true performer. Choked Cylinder/Modified.

I decided this summer that I was going to improve my shotgunning and took my first lesson a couple of months ago. At least on the clays practice stations I'm doing much better. Dove season will tell if I really improved. I have a thread going on the 'The High Road' in the shotgun forum titled 'One Box, One Bird, My Journey to Better Shotgunning'.

2 weeks ago this 20 gauge was sitting on a table at a gun show and I picked it up and learned why a 20 gauge Sterlingworth cost about 4 times what a 12 gauge does. I immediately fell in love with the 20 gauge and if it works out it will be my dove gun from this point on. I have named the 20 gauge 'Sven' a play on the word Svelte. I ended up trading 3 guns I don't shoot plus cash to acquire the 20 gauge. A Turk Mauser in 8 mm that I hated, a Ruger SR40c that I also hated, and an FMAP 1909 Argentine Cavalry Carbine that I liked but couldn't get a decent group out of and didn't shoot it at all. The asking price for the 20 gauge was $850 and the trade ended up being the 3 guns plus $350. So probably right at $850 in cash and trade.

The reason for the initial question in this post was my thought that if I could shoot a similar load in the 20 as the 12 I wouldn't be giving up much of the progress I have made with my 12 gauge. I'm not about killing an old shotgun just so I can get more birds. So this one will be shot with the low pressure shells with a 7/8 oz. payload. That being said, if the success rate is too low, I may well not use this as my go to gun for dove. As you guys suggested I will have to temper my shots for range to remain an ethical hunter.

As it turns out, my last lesson proved to me that I can shoot my modern 12 gauge pump as well as my 12 gauge Sterlingworth. It was all a matter of how I shouldered the gun. So if I 'need' to get birds I can always go back to the pump. (I'm rambling again).

Thanks again for all of the participation in this thread. I have gained a lot of knowledge from the back and forth on this forum.

[Johnm11]

Here are some pictures of the remaining part of the repairs done to the wrist of the 20 gauge. I had to screenshot from a video to get these as my attempts to photograph them outright was a miserable failure.

Better picture of the staple

Staple 1.png (286.8 KiB) Viewed 5817 times

Block

Block 1.png (255.08 KiB) Viewed 5817 times

Tang

Tang 1.png (249.42 KiB) Viewed 5817 times

[Johnm11]

The more I look at the photographs the more I'm thinking that the only repair done to the wrist of the 20 gauge is the addition of the plugs/reinforcements. The photographs inside the stock look more like old dried oil than a repair.

What do you think?

[Johnm11]

I shot the 20 gauge this morning with the. RST 2 1/2" shells. I have been infatuated with this 20 since I bought it. Now I'm in love. It is so light and a dream to shoot. BUT, I don't hit as well with it as I do with my 12. Percentage dropped from 70% down to 50% I just need to become a better shot gunner before I adopt the 20 as my primary. If dove season were to start tomorrow I would be carrying the 12 gauge Sterlingworth No mechanical issues today.

Now I need to be clearer when ordering shells over the phone. I intended to order 2 boxes of #8 shot to start to see what works best for both the gun and myself. But 2 cases showed up instead. Needless to say if anyone in Arizona needs 2 1/2" 20 gauge #8's I certainly have enough to share.

[Stan Hillis]

John, your experience is not abnormal, IMO. Many people shoot a larger bore gun better. In my opinion, it's a matter of shooting style. I shoot everything from 9.7 lb., 32" 12 ga. Foxes to sub 5 pound .410 doubles, at game birds. I have to use a different shooting style with the two extremes. With a big 12 I mount, track and shoot. With the lighter weight, sub-gauge, guns I have to shoot at almost the instant I mount the gun. I discovered this quite by accident, but it has held true for several guns and many dove shoots.

Just thought it might help a bit. i did some pretty good shooting on doves last season with 16s and 20s after I learned this.

SRH

[Johnm11]

Thanks Stan

I believe I just need to get better in general. I'm still learning. Its logical that you would need to shoot earlier (closer) with the smaller gauges. Consider I'm still preparing for each shot with conscious effort. Kind of like a golfer pre-swing. Cheek, shoulder, hold point, shoot point, left eye open to see the target soonest, swing, follow through all go through my head before each shot while I'm trying to gain repetitive knowledge
Muscle memory if you will.

I also intended to shoot different loads as well as the tighter choke to see what the gun and I liked best. I might need To go to a 7 1/2 or 6 shot and it may be better to shoot the tighter choke first. I have a long way to go.

[Jim Cloninger]

Hi John, I like your enthusimn about Fox shotguns. Keep it up.
Jim

[Stan Hillis]

If you could make a way to get over to Tucson and take a couple shooting lessons from Gebben Miles you would be amazed at how quickly he will have you breaking clays, and hitting birds. Gebben is a fine young man and a national champion sporting clays competitor. His family owns Coyote Springs Sporting Clays in Tucson.

You can improve on your own, but you will go through a lot of shells improving on your own, which would easily pay for the lessons. I really believe in good instructors. I get a "tune-up" about once a year.

Good luck, SRH

[Johnm11]

Thank you Stan

I am taking lessons here in Mesa at Rio Salado. First lesson was an epiphany in how to shoulder a shotgun. Very basic stuff but improved my hit rate from once in a while when the bird accidentally flew into the shot to 70%. Lessons were a major impact. I have a thread going on 'The High Road' titled "One Box, One Bird, My Journey to Better Shotgunning" that is documenting my progress. I have improved a lot but I'm still learning and make mistakes often. Although I plan to continue lessons I'm to a point where I need repetition to learn to do things naturally. Right now every shot is a conscious effort.

It was so bad that i would seek out areas with few/no other hunters, thus few/no birds, just so I wouldn't have to account for my shots. I bought my first SxS, a Fox Model B in 16 gauge, just so I could look good while missing birds. I stumbled on the 12 gauge Sterlingworth at a gun show and traded the model B and a Winchester 1200 20 gauge straight. I have around $380 in the 12 gauge Sterlingworth and love the gun. The 20 gauge Sterlingworth was a pure impulse buy a couple of weeks ago that I couldn't pass up for $850.

It doesn't surprise me that I don't hit as well with it as my fundamentals still need improvement. But I love the weight and how it swings and would love to be good enough to turn it into my go to shotgun.