Fixin' a Fox

[jolly bill]

[Be forewarned, this is kinda long so you might want to go get yourself a cup of coffee (if in the AM) or a cold beer (if in the PM) to help you through this. Or just plain skip it.]

I thought this might be of interest to anyone shooting a Fox, that although it rarely happens with a Fox, sometimes there is a malfunction. And in this case, how it got fixed.

Several weeks ago I was shooting my trusty 12 gauge early A grade Fox SN 7983 that was made around 1907. I got the gun a little over 50 years ago in September of 1968 from Glenn Appleby at the Galeton PA gun show for $175.00. Judging from empty cartons of 209 shotshell primers, I’ve put about 10,000 reloads thru it in the last 6 years and many factory loads prior to that. And it has worked flawlessly.

However, I was on my last two shots at the last station of the 50 round Sporting Clays course when I pulled the right trigger for the first shot. Both barrels fired. Big surprise. It never happened before. Luckily, I was shooting my light reloads: ½ ounce in the right barrel and ¾ ounce in the left barrel so the recoil was not that bad.

Thinking it was me that caused the doubling, I thought nothing of it and that was the last two shots of that day. A week later shooting the same gun that I was thinking was OK, it happened again – I shot the right barrel and the left barrel fired also. I checked it out and found the trigger pull on the left barrel was real light, way too light.

So the next set of targets I shot the very light left trigger first and then the right trigger. Then for no obvious reason after a couple dozen shots, the left trigger operated normal and perfect. I could not get the gun to go back to the problem.

The following week I was discussing the situation with my good friend and great gun engraver and mechanic that I shoot with, Jim DeMunck, and he said it could be something as simple as a wood splinter, sears, dirt, dried out grease or whatever. He offered to check the gun out for me and the following is what he came up with.

These are Jim’s words with some of his pictures following:

“I took your AHF apart. Dirty inside and packed with old dried lube, dirt, flakes of powder, a BB stuck in the Safety . . .

A couple things I think were in play. I think the gun was apart and worked on way back. There is a peened over surface on the frame that just barely interferes
with the left hammer when full cocked. I think that may have been some of the problem with the left bbl. It looks to me like it was holding the hammer back just a bit when the gun was opened all the way. Then at times would remain holding it (pinching) it in place there off the sear slightly(?).

I fixed the little bit of damage to the frame by peening it back into place and dressing it smooth. Frame is soft despite the case colors. I think that damage was caused by a person trying to re-assemble the spindle back into the gun and getting that ball-ended screw back in place over the tension of the top lever spring and follower. Levering a tool of some sort against that area of the frame trying to get things to go together I'd guess.

Along with that, the left hammer sear notch itself was packed with dried lube & dirt. Hardened and filling the notch, it wouldn't let the sear set against the hammer like it should. A pic of that in the bunch too. The triggers were right at their full forward limit when the sears dropped into the hammer notches, especially the left sear. I adj the triggers to allow a little extra movement of them to let the sears drop freely into the hammer sear notches.

All the screws were extremely tight to remove. Putting them back in, they timed back up nicely and tight once again except for the top tang screw. It over clocked about an 1/8 turn in reassembly so I assume it was actually loose in its original clocked position. But glued in place from years of dried lube and oil. I tightened the threads so it is both tight on the draw and clocked.

Lots of dirt and stuff inside including a (#6?) lead shot stuck in the safety bar mechanism back by the rear tang screw. The wood matches as to all the other parts that normally do.

One thing I noticed is that instead of the screw/bolt that engages the top lever spindle with the yoke that turns the rotary bolt, it is attached a bit differently. Normally (?) the threaded end of that screw is simply peened over against the yoke on the right side after being threaded in place and a pain to remove when disassembling! This one has no peening done to the threads and instead a small round 'nut' threaded onto the end of the screw. The nut has screwdriver spanner slots in the end for attachment.

It does stick out much farther than those peened in-place assembly’s and I think it is the work of whoever did the above-mentioned damage. If you look at the pic of the head of the buttstock that shows the ser# and grade stamped into the wood, you'll see that a squared off chunk of wood is broken out right where this small nut now resides and that the missing wood once held part of the factory stamped ser# on it.

Another change to the spindle assembly is at the bottom end. Again, normally a round 'nut' with screwdriver slot for attachment AND a small set screw (sometimes 2) for locking the nut in just the right position for smooth operation. This gun has a round nut with screwdriver/spanner slot on the end, but is very noticeably thinner in construction. Plus it has no set screw for tightening. That is done by the nut itself being split lengthwise on one side. As it's screwed into place on the spindle end, it slightly expands and grips the spindle threads holding its position where it's left or so the theory goes, I guess!

The rotary bolt was covered with a hard coating of what felt like varnish & dirt. Scrapping the coating off after an acetone soak worked well. Everything else inside was coated with dried oil, dirt and some rust. The top edge of the right firing pin was hitting the frame inside so I trimmed that slightly and polished it.

Mainsprings look like they may be replacements but look brand new. Aside from a little surface rust, no damage. They don't have that smooth shiny surface to the wire coils that I'm used to seeing when I pull them out. One had a slight red marker color to the metal, the other a blue color. (left & right?) I put them back in the same sides they came from along with the followers.

Everything all cleaned up inside, polished & lubed. We'll try her out and make sure that problem has been eliminated after all this. Can't ever really tell till you live fire them!”

Back to me again . . .

I have since fired about 500 rounds through the old girl and she performed flawlessly like she has in the past, the sweetheart that she is.

My sincere thanks and appreciation to Jim for attending to this problem. He is a joy to shoot with and certainly has been helpful to me and other shooters with his expertise. Frank Srebro I’m sure can follow all this with his experience in the inner workings and mechanics of Fox doubles.

Thanks too for your patience in going through this.

Here's some pics that Jim took and his comments:

[Jeff S]

Wow! I hope you get to shoot it another 50 years! (I think that will make you about 132 )

[JasonPeck]

I wonder how that little #6 got in there.

[fox-admin]

Thanks Bill very interesting, Jim is a wonder his knowledge and skill is world class matter of fact he is in a class by himself and so modest.

[jolly bill]

Wow! I hope you get to shoot it another 50 years! (I think that will make you about 132 )

I think I'll go for it Jeff. I might need some help getting around the SC course, especially it it's real hilly. Only the uphill part! And yes, at 132, they might give me the Super Senior discount. Wouldn't that be nice?

Jason: I think the only way a #6 shot could get in the innards would be through where the hammer toes extend thru to where they meet the cocking slide on the barrel lug. Be pretty tight but possible I guess. I suppose I could try it. Nah. Any other thoughts?

And your right Craig, Jim is a pretty talented guy.

Jolly

[Silvers]

Bill, thanks for posting including your excellent pics. Yes I'd say Mr. DeMunck is a talented mechanical gent in addition to his engraving expertise. Just some comments: that small round nut on the yoke screw is typical for early Foxes, as is the round/split compression nut on the threaded end of the lever spindle. Also shown in your pics is the early style hammer sear spring that doesn't have a reverse curve on its legs. All three seem to be the norm in Foxes up to the high 8700 s/n range (last such gun in my records).

frank

[jolly bill]

Bill, thanks for posting including your excellent pics. Yes I'd say Mr. DeMunck is a talented mechanical gent in addition to his engraving expertise. Just some comments: that small round nut on the yoke screw is typical for early Foxes, as is the round/split compression nut on the threaded end of the lever spindle. Also shown in your pics is the early style hammer sear spring that doesn't have a reverse curve on its legs. All three seem to be the norm in Foxes up to the high 8700 s/n range (last such gun in my records).

frank

Thanks Frank, I really appreciate your input.

Jolly

[bamboozler]

Wonderful post Jolly Bill! We appreciate the effort it took to put that together.

[loggy]

Bill,
Thanks for the post. It is a good thing that there are talented people in this world. I am not one of them.
Thanks,
John

[jolly bill]

Bill,
Thanks for the post. It is a good thing that there are talented people in this world. I am not one of them.
Thanks,
John

Hi John,
I'm not one of those talented people either. Luckily, I know one or two of them.
Bill

[Mills]

Very interesting. My Super Fox has something of a similar problem. The right firing pin will dent the primer but not fire the shell sometimes. Then, when using heavy loads, both barrels will double and the barrels will disengage. I have it put aside until I can find a good gunsmith to try to fix it. One has already worked on it three times