new member with many questions

[Foxnut]

Glassman,
Welcome to the board. The MI Antique Arms Show is coming up in February (2nd week I think) and May be a good place to meet people and see some good doubles. You didn’t mention if you specifically wanted a Fox, an American SxS or European, Japanese, etc. there are a lot of good options for you to choose from if you are mainly looking for a shooting/hunting gun. Certainly the Sterlingworth 20/16’s are a great choice, and as SPE said you can find Savage era and occasional Philly era guns with modern dimensions that may approximate what you are measured for. Browning BSS 20’s are a nice option if you find the 28” Mod/Full configuration that would work for grouse/woodcock and preserve pheasants. There are lots of options...it can be overwhelmingly fun!!

[vaturkey]

If you want to dip your toe in the water and will consider something else, there are a bunch of Japanese made SKB 20 gauges out there. Single trigger, but if you can find the short barreled 26" model they will normally have IC/Mod chokes and will shoot just about anything you want to stick in them.

[Jim Cloninger]

Gman, you can't go wrong with an A.H. Fox! Jim

[SPE33]

Don’t get me wrong, I do like my Fox Guns.But if I could find a nice Syracuse made D.M.Lefever 16 gauge DS grade with 26”barrels I would snap it up in a minute.Very well made guns. Their production numbers were well below Fox tho...only 65,000 to 70,000 total. Try to learn as much as you can about these older American made double guns,there is a wealth of information available at your fingertips.Good luck,enjoy the hunt.

[glassman48]

thanks again for all your input, the place I am going to get fitted at has a really nice gun room, one of the sxs that fit me well was a 20 gauge miroku? spelling? I think that gun was from the 80's. I had the pleasure of talking to someone today for quite a while from the parker forum. He has a cottage about 1/2 hour from me. He went over a lot of stuff that is hard to type in here. One of his thoughts is if I ever decide to shoot sporting clays which I have never done is to use a 12 gauge. He was asked to shoot at field trial events and was able to watch some of the best field trial dogs working. I am guessing he is a very good shot, but he is humble so its hard to tell. He talked about single triggers vs. double triggers, and opening chokes. I don't think I would ever put screw in chokes in an older gun, after talking to him. Like I mentioned the brittany I own breeder lives right down the road, he has offered to let me borrow his 12 gauge winchester with 30" barrels and double triggers that will help me figure out a couple things, double triggers, and shooting a 12 gauge with light loads. I am leaning towards an older american made gun now. My breeder loved his fox, he had it all redone, and gave it to his brother. I may try to shoot sporting clays with an older gun, I think that would be a lot of fun. It was bad enough all the sleep I lost after my brittany started hunting so well, it took me a week and a half to even get a wild bird down. He put up so many birds, it was almost embarrassing all my misses, after leaves started coming down things went better My breeder told me to keep him on wild birds all season which is what I did. The parker forum guy reaffirmed my suspicion about shooting a gun with a longer barrel for sporting clays, pheasants etc. I cannot believe how much I am learning in these forums, with all your help. I will probably lose more sleep now that I am going to get an older gun, very exciting, I am glad I found these forums. Thanks again

[Jeff S]

Opening the chokes is okay, but you may consider RST spreaders first. In my experience they will make a full shoot pretty close to IC. Have fun. I’ll look you up next time I’m in Kalkaska.

[Silvers]

After SPE Joe mentioned the Lefever DS 16 I remembered I had this pic on my cell. Taken while grouse hunting in November - at the top is a very early 20 bore/28-inch Fox-Sterlingworth that's been restocked and converted to straight grip with a long strap trigger guard, lower gun is a Syracuse Lefever DS 16 bore/26-inch as he'd mentioned, all original. Both excellent makers and neither one is for sale!

frank

[Mike of the Mountain]

Glassman, choke is all mental!! If you put the muzzle where it needs to be you will kill the bird or break the clay no matter what choke. If you get used to shooting a certain choke combination then you will be a better shot. Learn to shoot your gun(s) well and the rest won't matter. As for ammo, I am just like the majority of guys on here who have quite a few different maker's guns. I do shoot RST shells in the short chamber guns, but mainly shoot reloaded RST hulls. In my 20, 16 and 12 guns that have "normal" chambers I will shoot Fiocchi Shooting Dynamics shells on a regular basis. All is depending on having your barrels checked to make sure you have good wall thickness. You do have 'smiths in Michigan who can do that for you. Those Fox Sterlys can handle modern ammo, just don't go overboard on the use of those snotty game loads. Those old stocks can crack. Have fun!!

[glassman48]

Thanks again for all your input, Jeff, not sure what RST spreaders are? The rst is the link someone gave me to buy shells. Would a spreader be a different type of pellet that spreads out further? In talking on the phone with a member, he suggested if I wanted to try sporting clays, I might want to stay with a 12 gauge. The only shotgun I ever used is a 20 gauge, but if the kick isn't bad with the lighter load 12 gauge, now I am leaning towards that. I only shot trap once when I was in my mid 20's the guy let me use a remington 1100 I got 20, then 22, then 24 on my 3rd box of shells. My arm was sore after, I never shot that many shells at once. So I always stuck with the 20 gauge. I am a little competitive by nature so the sporting clays kind of intrigues me plus I think it would help a lot with my wingshooting which has suffered after a 40 year lay off. Mike, what you said makes sense, I always considered myself pretty good overall with a shotgun, just trying to purchase right the first time. Then maybe I will end up with more than one older gun. It seems like this could get a little addicting:) I am just trying to buy at a safe price so I can resell if I don't feel comfortable, there are so many options, straight stock etc. Frank, those guns are beautiful, the one that caught my eye I mentioned earlier in a post was a sauer? spelling it had just a little scrollwork on it. I still am hoping for an american side by side. I will probably go to that Novi show unless I find one up here. We have a nice gun room in traverse city, theres a couple of gun shops that have a lot of nice guns, I will go look at those too. A young man up here told me he and his grandpa bought over 100 guns through the years, he is going to look and see what kind of side by sides he has and what gauge. He is a sentimental buyer, so don't think he will part easily with any gun. I found some parkers, I think one was a gh and another a vh, but cant find the grading for a vh in the parker sight, so it got me lost again:) Thanks for all your input again.

[Stan Hillis]

Glassman, choke is all mental!! If you put the muzzle where it needs to be you will kill the bird or break the clay no matter what choke.

While I appreciate Mike's abilities with a shotgun, I must disagree with this statement. You can put the muzzle right where it needs to be, but you will not kill a bird or break a clay, and regrettably may only cripple a gamebird with too little choke. Many years afield and competing in NSCA sporting clays has proved to me ............that choke really can matter.

This is meant as no disrespect to Mike. I respect him immensely, but all of our experiences are not the same.

SRH

[glassman48]

Stan, I appreciate everyones comments, I know very little except what I learned from about 12 years old to early 20's. This place is fascinating to me, there is so much I can learn in here, I always admired the older side by sides. I am selling one of my businesses soon, and will be able to have more time to devote to my dog and hunting in general. It will be a long awaited dream to own an older side by side. I never thought about sporting clays until one of the members mentioned it should improve my shooting in general. I don't want to mention how many shells I shot this year hunting. It was amazing to me that I could miss that many birds. I got better as the season went on but its all a learning experience. Which is why I like these kind of forums so much. Thanks again

[Jeff S]

Glassman, you've mentioned that you are going to get "fitted" for a gun so I'm guessing that you are dealing with Brian at Fieldsports. From what I've heard, he's probably one of the best around. I'm also guessing that you have been to Hemples. Last time I was there they had a Fox A Grade. RST Spreaders are interesting shells. The plastic "wad" has an "X" shaped divider in the middle. This divider is somewhat wedge shaped so that it has a slight tendency to spread the lead shot a little as they leave the barrel. It has been my experience that they work pretty well, but others may disagree. They are only a few dollars more per box so you may want to give them a try. As always, your results may vary from mine, but I think they are worth trying. Jeff

[Stan Hillis]

i agree. Spreaders are always worth trying before reaming chokes. I go through a couple flats of spreaders every 6 months or so.

SRH

[glassman48]

Jeff,
Have not been to hampels yet, just fieldsport, I am leaning towards an american made sxs probably a parker of a fox, I like the l.c. smith too. I am going to borrow an older winchester sxs with double triggers and shoot that as soon as weather warms up. This is the only time of year I really have time to look into this. As soon as spring comes around both businesses get busy. Thats why I am pushing to get this done. Stan, I will try the spreaders too. thanks again for everyone's input. Ed

[glassman48]

I am also going to look at the Lefever, like spe33 and silvers mentioned. I seem to be drawn to just a little scrollwork, it looks like maybe one grade above field grade. Maybe after I get 1 gun, I can look into getting one more thats a grade above field grade. I am so sentimental sometimes, its hard to sell stuff. I still have stuff that the guy that first took me hunting gave me. He bought me a shell looped belt, I wore that thing everywhere, I even tried to sling it across my chest like the outlaws used to do in the movies:) When your 12 years old, your easily influenced:) Thanks again, Ed