Sterlingworth chamber marking

[John Joseph]

I came across a 12 gauge Sterlingworth circa 1915 in pretty nice condition, but I can't find any indication of which length shell the barrels are chambered for.
I don't want to assume they're common 2-3/4" although a 2-3/4" shell does fit.
Could anyone please tell me where I'll find the chamber length stamped on a Sterlingworth?
Thanks.

[Stan Hillis]

Welcome to the Fox forum, John, and congratulations on your "new" Sterlingworth.

In answer to your question, a standard 12 ga. Sterlingworth of that vintage would normally have 2 5/8' chambers. The only way that would not be the case is if it had been sent back to Savage, after they took over A H Fox, and they recut the chambers to 2 3/4". Or, if someone else lengthened them. They were usually marked so if Savage did it. The chamber length will likely not be stamped unless they were lengthened by Savage.

If your barrels are sound, and the forcing cones have not been lengthened drastically in lightweight barrels, you will be fine using 2 3/4" shells in it. Carefully determine that, though. The reason they were held "short", to 2 5/8", is so the older shells would get a better gas seal upon firing.

A very good way to determine the chamber length is to use a 6" machinists scale/rule. Hold the barrels with the muzzles towards a good light source with one hand. With the other slowly slide the scale into the chamber, snugly against the chamber wall, while watching the progress through the chamber. When you see the forward end of the scale get to the rear end of the forcing cone, pinch the scale between your thumb and first finger at the breech end. Hold it there, withdraw it from the chamber, and read the length on the scale. You can do this a few times to verify your readings. I know this sounds "shadetree" but it can be very accurate.

Please feel free to ask any other questions concerning your new Fox.

SRH

[Researcher]

The SAAMI meeting where it was "suggested that our manufacturers start marking the chamber length on their guns was in 1937. Some Fox doubles that letter as shipping in 1938 have the chamber length markings and some don't. By guns that shipped in 1939 it is pretty constant.

The apparently didn't have a 3-inch roll-stamp, so did the Fox-Sterlingworth Wildfowls this way --

You find the same thing on Remington Model 11 & Sportsman autoloaders and Model 31 pumps. Up to about 1939 they are just marked with the gauge --

but by 1940 they are adding the chamber length --

Before the lawyers got involved our manufacturers believed their customers knew what they were doing!! Throughout the Philadelphia years if the customer requested longer chambers than standard, the only place that was marked was on the production card and possibly on the hang-tag that came with the gun, but I've never actually seen a hang tag for a long chambered gun. The exception was the Super-Fox and if it was chambered for the 3-inch shells the barrel flats were stamped 3IN.

Likewise back in first decade of the 20th Century the "standard" length 12-gauge shell was 2 5/8 inch, 16-gauge 2 9/16 inch and 20-gauge 2 1/2 inch. If a box contained shells of that length there was usually no length listed on the box. Length was listed if the box contained extra length shells of 2 3/4, 2 7/8 or 3 inch.

[John Joseph]

Thank you!
On one of the barrels there is a "2" so can I assume these aren't the lightest barrels?
There is nothing stamped to indicate the chambers have been lengthened
I'll check the chambers with a machinist's rule tomorrow to see what it reads.
Perhaps I should learn to reload for her using a roll crimp?

[Stan Hillis]

Reloading to get the shell length to match the chamber is an option, and a great one if you already reload shotshells. Others buy "shorties" from RST or Polywad, who sell short shells with low pressure loads. Reloading is much more economical.

Again, you will be fine with 2 3/4" shells if your barrels are sound. If they're not, you wouldn't be much safer with short shells.

And, you're right about the barrel's weight. Barrel weights on Foxes run from 0, for the HE grade and Sterlingworth Wildfowl barrels, through 1,2 3 and 4 weight. So if yours are 2s, they're in the middle of the barrel weight range.

SRH

[Researcher]

My canned post on --

FOX CHAMBERS --

The only two A.H. Fox Gun Co. catalogues, that I have seen, that state chamber lengths are the 1913 and 1914. They both state 12-gauge guns are regularly chambered for 2 3/4 - inch shells, 16-gauge 2 9/16 – inch shells and 20-gauge 2 1/2 - inch shells. That being said, virtually every 12-gauge Ansley H. Fox gun made in Philadelphia (other than the HE-Grade Super-Fox) that I've run a chamber gauge in shows about 2 5/8 - inch. The chambers of unmolested 16-gauge guns seem to run about 2 7/16 inch and 20-gauge guns a hair over 2 3/8 inch. A very few graded guns were ordered with longer chambers. Savage began stating chambered for 2 ¾ inch shells in their 1938 Fox catalogues.

All this being said there is a good body of evidence that back in those days chambers were held about 1/8 inch shorter than the shells for which they were intended. In the book The Parker Story the Remington vintage specification sheets on pages 164 to 169 call for a chamber 1/8-inch shorter than the shell for which it is intended. Also in the 1930's there were a couple of articles by A.P. Curtis in The American Rifleman (July 1936 and March 1938) on the virtue of short chambers. A series by Sherman Bell in The Double Gun Journal showed no significant increase in pressure from shooting shells in slightly short chambers. IMHO I don't much sweat that 1/8-inch in 12-gauge guns. On the other hand when one gets a 20-gauge chambered at 2 3/8-inch likely intended for 2 1/2-inch shells I do worry about folks firing 2 3/4-inch shells in such guns.

Also, Askins mentions (Modern Shotguns and Loads, 1929) that for the last 3 years or so the US makers started to hold their chambers shorter since the constriction made when shooting 2-3/4" loads in 2-5/8" chambers was found to improve patterning.

[John Joseph]

Thanks!