Seeking Advice on a Fox Gun For Me & My Dogs

[HighDesertMan]

I’m new to this forum as well as Fox shotguns. I’m looking to purchase a Fox shotgun to hunt wild quail, chukar, grouse, and some pheasant with over my bird dogs. I bird hunt out West in Oregon over a brace of setters and I have a buddy that has been shooting his beautiful Fox shotgun for years over our bird dogs. I’ve been appreciating the beautiful gun, I love it’s look and feel as well as the it’s history, though my knowledge of such is very limited.
I could use some advice on a gun that would be a good entry for me. I have also been looking at Fox Sterlingworth SxS 12 gauge with 26” barrels. They both appear to be bored open. The serial numbers match everywhere I can find it. The gun has had some work done on it. I was told the stock was refinished by someone named Bill Ferguson and I was also told he is well known for his workmanship. I’m not familiar enough to know one way or the other. Please feel free to offer your opinion or advise on any of the above. Thanks.

[fullchoke16]

Open chokes are not too common on older doubles (Fox included), but I suppose you know that. If the gun fits then by all means get it. It would also be good to warn you that later on you will also be interested in a 28" gun probably in 16 gauge with at least one tight choke for pheasant. Value wise, for the hunter, it's just pretty hard to beat a good Sterlingworth. More than one is preferable but we all have to start somewhere. Just make sure you get a solid gun with good barrels(the most important part of the gun). Good luck and good hunting. Fred

[HighDesertMan]

Thanks Fred. Couple questions. What do you look for when checking Barrel integrity? I assume pitting but I'm not sure what else. Also how reliable is the dime test to determine choke? In the sterlingworth I mentioned previously a dime fits easily into each Barrel without touching either. By the way I love the fit of the gun. I just have to decide if this is the one to pull the trigger on.

[jolly bill]

HDM,

An original 12 gauge Sterlingworth with 26 inches would be the Brush model likely choked IC in the right barrel and Mod in the left barrel. I should mention that a S'worth that originally had 28 barrels originally choked Mod and Full but cut to 26" would have chokes that might look like IC and Mod

Factory 30 or 32 inch barrels but cut to 26 inches would probably have no choke at all, ie, cylinder bores.

Cut barrels may look somewhat unfinished and show evidence of a hack saw. Also may not be close to 26" +/- an 1/8 of an inch or so.

Can you provide more details on the gun: serial number. Does it look like any part of the gun is refinished like the wood or reblued barrels. Can you show a picture of what the muzzle?

I suppose if it fits you good, gun mechanically sound, and priced right, might be a good choice for you.

The dime test? With nothing else available it works reasonably well to determine chokes as the good old US dime will usually not fit into a full choke 12 gauge but will slide all the way in for a Mod or more open choke. If the dime rattles around the bore, likely more open as in IC or no choke at all.

Hope this helps some.

[HighDesertMan]

Very helpful. Thanks for the information. The serial number is 57108, and it's also marked model 1911. I'm going to go look at it again tomorrow and I will get some pics. From my measurements before the barrels were right on 26" and to my untrained eye didn't look like they've been cut down. I'm told the stock was refinished by someone named Bill Ferguson, the fore stock is original and I don't believe it's been reblued. Thanks again for the information, I'm learning a lot.

[vaturkey]

With that serial number the gun should be one of the Pin Gun's as I recall. (Google Fox Pin Gun and you will find info on it). I'd be very surprised if the barrels weren't cut on that gun given the serial number. Posting a picture of the barrel ends might help us out. FWIW, with hunting the birds your hunting you might want a bit more choke then what this gun seems to have. 12 gauge Sterly's are quite common to find in reasonably good condition for little money. To get an idea of real values, if you go on gunbroker.com and look up what has been sold in the last 30 days or so, you can get a idea of what the values are associated with the condition of the gun.

[eightbore]

A 16 gauge Fox will weigh a pound less than a 12. It will cost more, but be more pleasant to carry on long hunts. Don't buy any double gun without knowing the exact bore and choke dimensions.

[Researcher]

It could be a righteous Sterlingworth Brush. The only one I've recorded is at the other end of the 57xxx range. Savage used up a lot of short barrels towards the end of production, and all the 12-gauge Fox-Sterlingworths I've recorded in the 160xxx and 161xxx serial number range are 26-inch barrel guns. During the Philadelphia era, A.H. Fox Gun Co. cataloged the Sterlingworth Brush (26-inch barrels) and the Sterlingworth Field (28-inch barrels) with 3-inch drop-at-heel, while the Sterlingworth Standard (30-inch barrels) and the Sterlingworth Trap (32-inch barrels) were cataloged with 2 3/4 inch drop-at-heel. In the Savage era, all barrel lengths were cataloged with 2 3/4 inch drop-at-heel.

[HighDesertMan]

Thanks guys for all the info. My eyes were opened by you all and I tried to apply it as I took measurements and a bunch of pics. It definitely has been worked

on as you'll see. I'm told the stock was redone by Bill Ferguson, but not sure what else has been modified or they finished. The drop at heel is 2 and 1/4 inches and the drop at comb is an inch and a quarter. I'm still not sure if the barrels were cut down. The foregrip has a small crack running approximately 4 inches from the front right side back and there is a small pin that's been placed in it. Please take a look at the pics and give me some feedback. Again the serial number is 57108. I sure do appreciate the information and I enjoy learning and going through this process.

[HighDesertMan]

More pictures

[HighDesertMan]

I had one morepic that shows the number one stamped on the bottom of each Barrel. Wasn't able to get it uploaded.

[Researcher]

That is definitely a restock, and 98% sure the barrels have been cut. A Sterlingworth stock of that era looked like this --

57277 right

57277 06.JPG (38.01 KiB) Viewed 9188 times

57277 left

57277 07.jpg (36.97 KiB) Viewed 9188 times

The Sterlingworth was only supplied with a capped pistol grip until 1935 when Savage introduced their Fox-Sterlingworth Skeet & Upland Game Gun with a straight grip --

374152 left

[HighDesertMan]

Thanks for the information researcher. That makes sense with what I'm being told about it. I'm not sure what it does to the value. I imagine they had a good reason for doing what they did. Given that the barrels we're likely also cut down how does one go about determining what the chokes are? Being that I'm looking for a fox side-by-side to hunt birds with maybe I should take the advice of others and look for something more solid and original to its time. I know that I would like the barrels to be open and modified.

[67galaxie]

You have been given great advice. Being cut down the chokes need to be measured because they have been cut back to a more open place in the barrel. If you can get it at a deal the shoot it and love it. They are all cool guns but the ones that still get the game are the coolest

[jolly bill]

HDM,

As Researcher/Dave pointed out above, it looks like the stock is not original. Those early Model 1911 Sterlingworth's (also known as the Pin Gun because of the exposed hinge pin head on the receiver) had full pistol grip stocks with a grip cap.

Dave mentioned the possibility of it being the Brush model with 26" barrels and knew of one righteous lettered Brush model in the other end of of SN 57108.

That would be my gun, SN 57979.

Below is a picture of the muzzle for comparison plus one or two more. Note the presence of a key or keel just below the top rib. Those are not always visible.

I suppose if the gun is really priced right and it fits you and you'd be happy with an open choked gun, it just might be an OK purchase. The problem in buying a non original gun is when you go to sell it. What is the asking price for the gun?

Jolly