Bo-Whoop

[duckman1500]

At the risk of opening controversial subjects,has anyone heard or seen anything new on Bo-Whoop[Nash's lost "Holy Grail" shotgun]?

[Silvers]

Current tale I heard at the NE Classic SxS last month is that BW was found in a pawn shop a few years ago and is now owned by a collector who is keeping her tucked away. There were a series of threads re: BW on the doublegunshop site last winter (cabin fever?) and if you're a member there you can use the search function to scan them. Fascinating topic. My own take is whomever retrieved or found BW after if dropped off the fender, knew or became aware of the fame of the gun. And although that person may be long gone he probably passed it on to his wife, son, etc.; thence to X, and so on..... For the gun to show up unheralded in a pawn shop seems far fetched to me. But stranger things have happened.

[birdawg]

It is not really clear where the fabled piece resides most of the year.
I do know, occasionally, in the faint dawn of crisp autumn mornings when the high fliers are moving south, you can hear her voice call out over the marsh.

[DGKaas]

As volunteered to me by a well known, reputable long time gun dealer who told me at the Southern SxS he had handled the gun, some years ago BW I surfaced in a pawnshop in southern Illinois. A local hunter saw the gun and told a fellow he knew who "collected old doubles", this person went to the shop and purchased the gun for circa $1000 as it was in "pretty good shape". Knowing exactly what he had, he made discrete inquires and was put in contact with the late Dr. Chubby Andrews, who was told the gun could be purchased for $100,000. Allegedly, Dr. Andrews who had owned and had recently sold BW II (now at DU HQ)attempted to put together a consortium to acquire the gun but apparently the more than suspect trail of title put some other folks off and by the time the seller was contacted again the gun had been sold. Again, allegedly, the gun was quickly resold for $300,000 to the ubiqutous "anonymous collector". Whether any of this, some of it or all of it is true, I do not know. Why the late Dr. Andrews, the self proclaimed Christian and "son Nash never had" did not immediately contact the FBI on behalf of Nash's heirs as the gun is stolen or atleast converted property, I do not know either. But, I atleast believe the man who told me the story that the gun still exists. I have heard a number of variations of this basic story with different numbers of intermediaries and dollars quoted but this was the first time Dr. Andrews was mentioned over the years from knowledgable Fox people and the if you read NB's contemporary letter to John Bailey describing the search for BW I, like Nash I am certain the cased gun was picked up from the roadside intact by someone passing through. Unfortunately for Nash, that initial finder was a thief.

[duckman1500]

Mr Kaas,fascinating story that I have never heard in this detail.I hunt five miles from Bever Dam and sometimes, when the wind is just right, you can hear the sound of Bo-Whoop.Maybe someday it can come to light .

[DGKaas]

Perhaps that was one of my HEs you heard. We make the pilgrimage to Clayton every year. One year we had three HEs, two 0 frames and a standard frame in the blind.

[FoxedChisels]

Over the last few Months, I have had several 'Calls' from Fox-Folks'. I had the opportunity to put Sr No 121, Built for Frank J Barthmaier,1906, A.H.Fox's Treasurer, alongside No 35, the Eisenlohr '2 Barrel/1st Ejector gun,c 1905. Please feel free to correct me on 'Any Points"that you feel I am not correct on.......I have been told that the Buckingham H.E 12 bore Bo Whoop(The Original) was in Northern Indiana, Hanging on the wall of a "Small-Town" Drugstore......The "Chappie" who was Sporting it around, and having it Restocked, Briley Screw-Ins", Recoil-Reducers buried inside the Stock....Gun-Dealer in South Carolina I think,never did reply to my offer to buy the Original Stock....cc/dt

[George Lander]

I just found my copy of the Fox letter on the original Bo Whoop & thought it might be of interest here. My scanner is broken & so I'll just quote Mr. Callahan from April 6, 2006:

"Thank you for your letter requesting information about you're A.H. Fox double barrel shotgun.

This past week, I was able to locate in the original Fox records, information specific to your shotgun with S/N 31088. The record card shows that it was originally made as follows.
Grade- HE Grade
Gauge- 12 gauge
Barrels- 32", choked Full & Full
Stock- 14 1/4" length of pull, 1-1/2" drop at comb 2" drop at heel.
Weight- 9 lb., 9 oz.
Notes- Slender straight grip, half oval, Hy Gain recoil pad, XE grade
style stock & forend, XE engraving full round comb, pitch-2", cast off-
1/4" chamber for 3" shell for #4 chilled shot, Largest Ivory front sight,
small Ivory rear-10" from breech
The shotgun was shipped from the Fox, Philadelphia, PA. factory on May 27, 1927. The original consignee is listed to be Nash Buckingham.

The Super Fox HE Grade was a long distance shotgun built especially for close patterns at extra long range. This A.H. Fox double was built for and owned by one of the most "storied" of Fox shotgun users; Mr. Nash Buckingham. He was a famous American sporting writer and long range wingshooter from circa 1920's. Buckingham's guns of choice were long range shotguns and your double characterizes this love.

I hope you find this information interesting and helpful. You have a fine example of classic American gunmaking.

Sincerely,

John T. Callahan" en-quote

There has been quite a bit of discussion concerning this gun on this forum and another. I was fortunate to handle Bo Whoop a while back while it was being restocked. I DO NOT know who it presently resides with and that information was deleted from the letter. To my knowledge it is now back with that person.

Best Regards, George Lander

[DGKaas]

It is interested that 1) #31108 according to McIntosh via Roe Clark is a standard 30" 12 gauge A grade supplied to Supplee-Biddle, a distributor in Philadelphia on 7/16/26, 2) you claim the records show that BWI was an X/HE rather than a Special, the letter as quoted also makes no mention of omitting the safety and the ivory fore end tip also known to be features of BWI and 3) that notwithstanding your disclaimer, you admit to handling what is presumably stolen property. I'll be interested in whether John Callahan will confirm the authenticity of this letter and what Dave Noreen has to say about it. Bill Murphy also has access to copies of the Fox records and I am sure will be happy to double check the workcard. Amazing they and Tom Kidd missed the world's most famous Fox...

[Researcher]

I've had a color photocopy of that production card for 31088 for years, and there is no mention of "no safety" nor the engraving on the barrel about it being made for Nash Buckingham, nor Burt Becker all items mentioned in Nash's writings. While I've never handled 31088, from reading the card I always suspected it was a gun ordered by Nash for one of his cronies. The poor pictures of Bo Whoop in Nash's books sure don't look to me like Bo Whoop was done up in XE style.

[George Lander]

Mr. Kass & Researcher: If you will e-mail me your Fax number I'll be more than happy to send you Mr. Callahan's letter as described. Mr. Kass,
please note the serial number as being different from the one noted by Michael. As for hefting stolen property, I wonder how many guns that you have hefted in your lifetime that may have been stolen at some point in their lifetime?

As a lawyer you should remember that "POSSESSION is NINE POINTS OF THE LAW!"

Best Regards, George

[MARSHFELLOW]

Y'know George, there's just something about those last two comments you posted that are just plain obnoxious on a forum such as this one.
Tom Wyraz

[eightbore]

The "mystery" could be solved by requesting a new letter from Mr. Callahan. It is to be questioned that the Callahan letter would read as stated.

[fox-admin]

Bill: What serial number should you ask for? I will order a letter with the request coming from the AH Fox Collectors Assoc. and post it on the web site when it is received. Craig

[DGKaas]

Mr. Landers, my apologies on the serial number. I tend to agree with Dave that this gun does not appear to be BoWhoop I but another high grade HE very much like the Caldwell HE/XE. The good news is that if it's not BoWhoop I then it's probably not stolen. As to your flippant remark regarding the law, I presume then, you don't do title searches in your real estate business relying on possession as an indicia of ownership. Of course, 10% of the titles being bogus might put a cramp on home sales...

One interesting difficulty regarding the Bo Whoop I mystery is that the the advertisement placed in the local paper after the loss refers specifically to a "Becker shotgun" with NB's name on the gun and case. During the 1920s while Becker was a contractor for Fox in Phila., the known and documented guns associated with NB ( and Hawes, Bartholomew, etc.) and Becker were marked A.H. Fox Gun Co., etc. Associations with Becker came from notations on the work card ("See Becker", etc.) or other documentation and/or obvious "tells" in the workmanship of certain of these higher grade Foxes. Why would NB advertise to the general public for the recovery of a "Becker gun" rather than the well known A.H. Fox gun name unless Bo Whoop was clearly marked as a Becker ? I doubt he expected Joe the farmhand to disassemble a Fox gun to look for Becker's marks. NB notes that Ad Roll had the gun made for him. It would seem unlikely the sales manager of Fox would sidestep his employer and have BB do the gun on the side for NB (thus accounting for the lack of a documented work card).Perhaps the gun went to BB in the 1930s after his Fox days for some work and was remarked at NB's direction (but one would think NB would have mentioned this somewhere...) Anything is possible up to and including the gun George Lander handled being the lost BWI but the known facts do not seem to fit this conclusion at this time.