Help IDing/more info

[X-Factor]

Hey all I'm new. First of all I apologize both for the long post and the inevitable failure in proper terminology; I am not well versed in older guns. I was left a Fox Sterlingworth SxS by my dad who purchased it back in the mid '90s from an older gentleman client of his, to help with his estate sale. I BELIEVE it is a 16ga (though his bill of sale paperwork says 20ga) only by virtue of the fact that 2 3/4" 12ga shells will not chamber, and 2 3/4" 16ga will (haven't attempted 20ga but if its a 20ga then my 16ga shell shouldn't chamber I assume). The gun has not been fired since the mid '90s at minimum, and I will never shoot it on the off chance that it is not in proper working order. I have some pictures that I can post, but here are the specs that I know:

-Grade/Model: SP as marked (upside down?) next to serial number under barrel. Nearby a faint "2" appears to be along with some other mark.
-OAL: 46"+
-Barrel length: 30" (breech to muzzle)
-Serial number: 131161 verified/matched at trigger, chamber floor, under barrel, and under the forend (oddly also incorrect on dad's paperwork).
-Extract/Eject: Appears to be only extract, shells "pop up" when you open the breech, but then settle down and must be dumped over.
-Grip: Full
-Trigger: Double
-Grip Cap: Smooth
-Safety: Savage design
-Beat: Metal
-Forearm loop: Unknown, I can't figure it out
-Barrel is marked with two lines of text, one each on each barrel. "MADE BY SAVAGE ARMS CORP, UTICA NY USA" and "STERLINGWORTH FLUID COMPRESSED STEEL"
-The fore-end is a "quick release" design and easy to remove along with the barrel, requiring no tools or particular effort, and is equally simple to put back together.

The condition isn't something I can honestly comment on, it appears to be decent to me but I can see evidence of wear. The grip cap is cracked, that is the only legitimate flaw that I can determine.

From what I've read, this is somewhat of a rare gun given the grade/serial number and on a Sterlingworth? I do not have any original paperwork or accessories that may have come with the gun. Any help on further ID or year of production/value would be appreciated.

Edit: Link to pictures, since I couldn't upload for some reason... http://imgur.com/a/X39Zt

[fox-admin]

I believe the sp stands for Savage proof. You gun is a 12ga standard Sterlingworth Utica NY produced based on the serial number. Appears to be in nice original condition with an added recoil pad. Shoot it with out concern with light 12ga target ammo. Enjoy and thanks for posting. Not sure why it will not chamber a 12 ga shell. Craig

[X-Factor]

The shells will not chamber at all unless its a 16ga.

Any idea on year of manufacture?

[jolly bill]

The shells will not chamber at all unless its a 16ga.

Any idea on year of manufacture?

As fox-adm said in his Reply, with that serial number, it is a 12 gauge Sterlingworth and in very nice original condition. The gun was likely made in the early to mid 1930's.

Not sure why a 12 gauge shell does not chamber in the gun. Are trying fired ammo which might be slightly over size or factory loaded shells?

Jolly

[Researcher]

Would that everyone who shows up asking questions provided as many good photos!! Very nice early Savage-era Fox-Sterlingworth, made with all Philadelphia parts. Just like in this early Savage-era Fox-Sterlingworth folder --



Can't imagine why a 12-gauge 2 3/4 inch shell wouldn't chamber. That is the F.T. Russell Patent No. 1,029,229, granted June 11, 1912, forearm fastening, used on virtually all Sterlingworths from about 1913 on. the SP in the oval is the Savage Proof mark.

[X-Factor]

The SP was only made in 12ga? How would I figure out what year we're talking about?

I've not tried shooting it, but merely atfempting to chamber 2 3/4" factory winchester 16ga (#9 maybe?), and run of the mill "OO" buck 2 3/4" 12ga for a simple chamber test. Don't have 20ga either.

Looks like a Sterlingworth on SP from Utica, ive always assumed mid 30s

[Researcher]

The SP was only made in 12ga? How would I figure out what year we're talking about?

The only way to find out what year your Fox-Sterlingworth was made and shipped would be to get a letter on it from the Savage historian --

http://www.foxcollectors.com/ah_fox/con ... tters.html

Your gun is not an SP-Grade. The SP in the oval is the Savage Proof mark. Both the Fox-Sterlingworth and the SP-/SPE-Grade were made in 12-, 16-, and 20-gauge. The 16-gauge guns had serial numbers in the 300000 range and the 20-gauges in the 200000 range. Your gun is a 12-gauge.

There were Savage-era Fox-Sterlingworths built on the flat-sided SP-frames --

[X-Factor]

I guess I'll find a Smith and figure it out exactly, it's very weird indeed, especially with what i was told and what 2as on dad's paperwork as well as the low serial number. Researcher I saw you had posted an exact copy with similar numbers before, that wasnt a 16?

[Researcher]

Your gun's serial number is not low, 12-gauge Sterlingworth serial numbers began at 50000 in 1910 and ran to 161556.

[X-Factor]

So The Oval/SP proof marks isn't a "Grade" mark it's just a mark of authenticity? How do I know what my grade is then? I'll try to get further pics tomorrow showing the difference in chambering of the different shells. None are handloads, all just standard off the shelf loads. Just trying to make sense of what I'm seeing and what I'm hearing. Very confusing.

[X-Factor]

Looking further at the AH FOX website under the Grading, I find that the "HE", '27 Sterlingworth, "Wildfowl", and "Flat side style" appear to most mirror what I have. Is this how grading is done or am I doing it incorrectly?

[Researcher]

Your gun is a Fox-Sterlingworth, the entry level Ansley H. Fox shotgun, just what it says on the sides of the frame!!

The SP-/SPE-Grade had a blued slab-sided frame. The SP-/SPE-Grade was introduced in June 1932, and the early examples were absolutely plain --

203681 A.H. FOX SPECIAL 20-Gauge 13.jpg (44.55 KiB) Viewed 3563 times

Here is a magazine ad from the introduction of the SP-Grade --

that also shows the Fox-Sterlingworth.

Then by about 1935, they added a bit of border engraving and little decorative flourishes --



Early on the SP-/SPE-Grades had the right barrel marked A.H. FOX -- SPECIAL - xx GAUGE --

This gun also has the serial number and 16 GA on the watertable --



This gun a few hundred later has SP GRADE also stamped on the watertable --



but the top of the barrels just say SPECIAL ALLOY -- FORGED STEEL --



What part of the country are you in? Perhaps we can suggest someone to take your gun to. If you are in the Northeast, bring it to our tent at the NE Side-by-Side at Hausemann's Hidden Hollow, 2 to 4 June.

http://foxcollectors.com/My%20Forum/php ... f=8&t=6845

Dave

[R.R.]

Just looking at the pictures.... would it be possible that the gun was returned to the factory for a set of 16 ga barrels and they provided them with the same serial number?
Perhaps it was just a replacement barrel?
I'm a Fox smallbore guy and those barrel walls look pretty thick to me.
Of course, not all 12 ga chambers are equal, nor honest, but I'd be more worried if they were oversized.
Looks like a pretty nice gun though.

[R.R.]

I may have overthought this....
Will a dime fit down either barrel at the muzzle?
Do you have a caliper or an accurate rule?

[Twice Barrel]

Will a dime fit down either barrel at the muzzle?
Do you have a caliper or an accurate rule?

The old dime test will not work if the barrels are choked full and full.