Cutting Barrels

[Twice Barrel]

Bobby I understand your hesitancy to lay out what was probably a significant sum of money on a gun that could not be absolutely validated. But when someone turns down a shooter grade gun on suspension that the barrels may have been altered even though the alterations are compatible with the price being asked and the function that the gun will preform I question why. Lower grade guns, Sterlingworths and A grades, are not rare and unless in pristine condition are not particularly collectable but they make superb field guns and can be enjoyed as such regardless of originality.

[Stan Hillis]

It is true they could be enjoyed in the field, but on the other hand, if it is a low graded gun, or a Sterlingworth, there are so many more out there that are not cut that it just doesn't make sense for me to buy one that is. I choose to just wait. And if it is an expensive, higher grade gun I certainly do not want it if not original bbl length, or at least having a level of certainty I can live with.

SRH

[Silvers]

Just some personal perspectives to add here ..... up until a few years ago it was relatively easy to "move" a Fox with cut barrels. Very few gents had bore mikes to check the length/profile of the chokes, be they Philly or Utica. And if the muzzles didn't look like a dufus did them, and the barrels were right on size (26-28-30) - such guns were often assumed to be correct. However in recent years more and more gents are up to speed on what to look for, and the advent of the AHFCA with our website and graded gun records/lookup service has surely helped with that education.

The factory certainly cut some very few barrels, and that work may not be noted on the gun's record card - but that shouldn't be taken as a blanket endorsement of originality of a Fox that might pass a cursory visual check. If evaluating a Fox with shorter barrels than shown on the card, I'd be looking for steel keels to help confirm factory cut barrels, and I'd also pull the silver front sight (if it has one) to check for the Fox factory taper which would be very hard for a gunsmith to replicate. Also, inspection with a magnifier will often show that the muzzle(s) have file marks and/or look irregular-non symmetrical, on barrels that were done by a gunsmith.

Certainly Foxes with post-factory cut barrels may be good shooters and even more useful in upland hunting, but they will not command the value that a 100% original Fox will bring from someone who know's what he's looking at. And there's much to be said for turning back the hands of time and hunting with an original Fox that's seen many decades without being modified. Again, all this is JMO.

Silvers

Edited to correct two typos

[Twice Barrel]

I respect all of your opinions on the virtues of verifiable originality for the purest among us I also value originality but there are times that screaming good deals come along on guns with significant utility and if the price is right I see no reason to reject them out of hand. Personal experience I found an exceptional A grade 16 gauge which the barrels had obviously been cut. The seller represented it as non original and the price asked reflected that. I bought it for about half the price of a lettered gun in the same condition and it meets my needs for an upland gun hunting over dogs so I am happy, the seller is happy and at sometime in the distant (I hope) future the next owner will be happy but if not who care I will have had a whole bunch of pleasure shooting it.

[Fin2Feather]

I agree with my good friend Twice Barrel, keeping in mind that the criteria for "collectible" guns and "shootable" guns are quite different. Some guns are both, of course, and I suppose the condition required of a collectible gun would always render it shootable, if one chose to do so.

[Augie]

A few years back I picked up an AE and a XE in a 2 for 1 deal, the AE had barrels cut from 30" to 28" but still measured full and mod, bore gauge showed 2" of choke remaining. That AE has turned into one of my best shooters, my original plans were to flip it but instead it sees more use than any of my other SxS's.