1912 CE 12 gauge

[donaldscarson]

I just recently added another CE to my closet. This is a 12 gauge ce with 30 inch Krupp barrels choked full and mod. What is the significance of chromex and krupp steel?The gun appears to be all original and in wonderful condition. I hope to acquire a better camera so I can post some better pictures than my last attempt.

[Researcher]

Krupp was the barrel steel that the A.H. Fox Gun Co. started with. A.H. Fox Gun Co. began mentioning barrel tubes that they marked CHROMOX in the early small bore brochure and many of the first 100 graded guns in both 16- and 20-gauge had barrels marked CHROMOX, but then they reverted to the known quality of Krupp. By the time The Great War was over, things German had a bad reputation, so the A.H. Fox Gun Co. went to using tubes from various suppliers that they marked CHROMOX. It would be an interesting project for a metallurgist to see if there was any difference in the composition of barrels the A.H. Fox Gun Co. marked CHROMOX FLUID COMPRESSED STEEL and those marked STERLINGWORTH FLUID COMPRESSED STEEL. We see both STERLINGWORTH and CHROMOX barrels with the various tube supplier's marks SB&Co., LLH, and the large D with a three lobed crown, that we find on most other American doubles as well. I've seen a few graded Ansley H. Fox guns from around 1920 with barrels roll-stamped CHROMOX FLUID COMPRESSED STEEL on top but still showing vestiges of the Krupp markings underneath!!

Recent testing by the Parker Gun Collectors showed Parker barrels marked Trojan, Vulcan, Titanic, etc. all with composition within the parameters for the same type of steel.

[Silvers]

I first heard that Parker steel barrels were "soft" when I was a kid, and the metallurgical testing as reported in the Parker Pages sure confirmed that. Basically all barrels tested were low carbon mild steel, without any significant % of alloying elements to increase strength.

I've read that Krupp shotgun barrel steel was an early alloy steel. And here's a Fox advert on its then-new Chromox steel. I presume that Fox ordered tubes made to its alloy specs from the various suppliers.

[jolly bill]

Silvers/Frank,

Interesting piece of advertising. Never seen one of those.

Thanks for sharing.

Jolly

[Silvers]

Thanks Bill. That advert appeared in August 1913.

Just some additional data on Fox barrels. Those familar with "spark testing" metals know that common low carbon steel will throw a different spark pattern when held against a grindstone, than will alloy steel and other sparking metals. I once tried a scrap Chromox 12-gauge barrel and it threw a spark pattern consistent with alloy steel. I know that's not too objective but it proved to me at least, that barrel was made of higher strength alloy steel. I'm not sayin' it was modern chrome-moly 4340 or similar. Some day when I get to the back burners I may send off samples of Fox Krupp and Chromox barrels for spectro testing and exact analyses of both.

[Researcher]

Frank, great ad, and one I hadn't found!!

And here's a Fox advert on its then-new Chromox steel.

One nit to pick. I don't see the words Chromox, Sterlingworth or Krupp mentioned in this 1913 ad. The great bulk of the graded Ansley H. Fox doubles built from then until after The Great War had Krupp barrels.

[Silvers]

Thank you Dave. A good nit to pick.

Here's an excerpt from another Fox advert dated June 1, 1912, regarding its new "1912 Model" in 16 and 20- gauges. The copy in the ad I posted earlier spoke of high pressure steel and I figured that the copywriter was talking Chromox - although that wasn't stated. The "tremendous" and "enormous" overcharge and "European Government" wordings in one or the other advert sound synonymous. In any case, Chromox is high pressure alloy steel.

Readers: early graded smallbores will be seen with Krupp and Chromox marked barrels.

[Researcher]

Oh yes. That is a variation of the one from the May 25, 1912, issue of Sporting Life that I posted in the Members area back on 4 July and had already forgotten!! Guess by 1913 they realized they weren't making all their barrels of Chromox and dropped the word from this August 1913 ad.