AH Fox - The Finest Sporting Clays Gun in the World

[Shooter]

Ok..... purists/collectors should probably avoid this posting.... I may be kicked off for this, but....

I picked my user name specifically because I AM a "shooter", not a collector. I used to be sort of a collector, but I realized having guns sitting in the safe doing little was just to frustrating...hence the sale of the 20 ga Super Fox I posted pics of earlier. I was not raised in a hunting household, but a city boy in Dallas.

But somewhere along the line about 20 years ago, for reasons not important here, I becamse obsessed with clays sports and nice guns, just as long as I could combine them. Looking for a nice mid grade double clays gun (I usually shoot a Super X-1), I found a 32" XE advertised by a dealer in a magazine (no online viewing at the time) and had the gun shipped in to take a look at. The price seemed to be well under what I thought would be the market, just from other ads I'd seen.

There was an obvious reason.... the stock had been cut to a 12" LOP (no pad) and the forend had been replaced with a cobbled up beaver tail made out of walnut with the figure of plywood. The chokes had been opened to .11 and .17.

As I was packing it up to send back, I got to thinking that it might be really hard to find a clean original decently stocked to my 15" LOP, and that didn't have other issues. The positive thing about the one in hand was that although case colors were mostly gone, the metal was good and the sharpness of the engraving was excellent. So, with a plan in mind, I kept the gun and had it custom stocked for me, with no other changes. Yes, I picked the blank. I shot 98/122 with it in the 1997 Vintage Cup, and have even shot a few NSCA tournaments with it, when I felt like playing around a little.

It's probably the only double with a half grip around that has a palm swell in the grip (I've got hands that don't really like a thin grip). I hope your hard core collectors won't shoot me.

[birdawg]

I like the gun, I love the hat.

[bbman3]

That is one beautiful XE ! It has the deeply chiseled engraving that takes so long to cut and the wood is beautiful! Bobby

[fullchoke16]

Shooter,
For what it's worth, I think your stocker did a helluva job. It's modified to what you needed but still maintains the flow of the original lines and shape. By the way, where did you get the cap?
FRED

[Hammergun]

Shooter-I remember you and that Fox. I shot in your squad in the '97 VC. I also remember you shot it well on a pretty tough course on a very warm day. I was shooting a Greener with too much drop and having a tough day, which I have since remedied with a new stock. Keep on shooting that gun, you're not going to hurt it a bit.

[Silvers]

Shooter, no need to apologize for anything. There's room here for Fox enthusiasts whether they are collectors, shooters, hunters, or anything in between.

Often the only hope for effectively shooting a gun with a really short cut stock, significant wear or other modifications, is to re-wood it, get the barrels redone, etc. Your 32" XE certainly looks great and with a 12" LOP, no pad, the only other choice might likely be to put in a 1.5-2" spacer. Personally I would go for the new buttstock and in fact I have a 12 gauge CE being rewooded as I write this. Interesting, the Callahan letter on that CE shows it was shipped with near perfect stock dimensions for me, 14-3/4" LOP and 2" drop at heel, but somewhere along the years the stock was replaced with another one. I'm putting it back about where it was when it left the Philly factory. And I'll shoot it on the sporting courses and for hunting.

I am personally a collector/shooter, and my quest for original Foxes with long barrels and long, high stock dimensions has been pretty tough. So, the rework of cut stocked or modified guns that are mechanically good, is usually what I get involved in. I don't mind doing "project guns" as long as they aren't basket cases, and in fact I enjoy it.

One last story. I have an AE that's been upgraded similar to yours with C checkering, long high grade type forearm, and X wedges. I call it my A/C/XE hybrid. The last time I shot it at Lehigh Sp. Clays near Allentown, I was high gun for the day with 92 ex 100. You wanna see some raised eyebrows when I came into the clubhouse with the scorecard and that 1916 Fox. I couldn't do that every day but that was one where my stars lined up. I've also used that same gun for crows, turkeys and foxes with excellent results. If I had a stock of bismuth I'd be using it for waterfowl too.

Thanks for writing and posting the pics. Silvers

[Ken Hurst]

SHOOTER ---- who was your stock maker ? He did a great job with that beautiful blank ! Ken

[Shooter]

Thanks for the nice responses....and for letting me stay on the forum

A couple of quick notes... the S# is 23,000 something... I should have checked before I left the house today. The tables put it at 1916 vintage. I've intended to get a letter, but haven't yet.

The hat I had made. In the local mall there was a place that put stuff on hats, shirts, etc. I took what I wanted to them and picked the font, and they did the rest. Cost me $25 I think. It's funny.... when I wear it I have a lot of younger shooters ask me.... "What's a Fox?".

Hammergun..... that is just TOO wild. I remember a Greener... but can't put a face with it. There was a guy with a Purdey, as I recall. Another was Jon Olgivie (?) from California who's a NSCA III instructor. That was a great shoot, if for no other reason because it was the first. I've told Ray several times that he should have made up something special as a take home for the first shoot, but as he's a cantankerous old yankee, he never listens (although I'm older than he is). I don't know how his wife puts up with him. Remember the 40-50 yrd chondel over the trees?

Regarding the stock, I wanted my friend Paul Hodgins (previously of H&H) to do it. He was living in Lewisville, TX at the time (now in Utah) but he was in England on an extended stay. One of the things I wanted to do is be able to drive the gun to whoever did it, as I wanted a face to face discusison instead of phones (this was 1997). About the same time, and this will probably come a shock to some, I got hold of a Fajen Custom Shop flyer somewhere. Most people don't know that Fajen even had a "custom" shop. They had just finished a huge plant in Springfield ( and that, as I understand, is what ended up breaking them a couple of years later) and had a nice show room fixed up. I went up there, met with their people, told them what I wanted, and you see the results. Knowing what I know now, I probably would have never left the gun with a "Fajen", and instead looked harder for a stocker who, romatically, works at a little bench in some hidden away spot making wooden masterpieces. But all things considered, I think they did a masterful job. I had no disappointments in it at all. I suppose most of their guys are now with Wenig.

I told them I wanted the stock grip and other details to be exactly like the original (no flutes on the comb, by the way), except for LOP, drop, offset, and grip. They'd neve heard of a palm swell on a half hand grip, and neither had I, but they did a great job and it's works perfectly for me. It's so subtle that no one ever notices until they pick it up. My big fear was the checkering, but I think they pretty much nailed it. The forend is a product of all our imaginations, of course, as I didn't really have a guide for that. Since the stock wasn't original, I figured the forend wouldn't be a big issue. Someone said it ended up looking similar to some Model 21 forends.

The blank was at their shop. They had more traditional, high grade English and Turkish, but I fell in love with the Bastone as soon as I saw it. By the way....the color of the wood is really not as "bright" as the pictures show it.... that's just the lighting for the photos.

[Shooter]

PS: If someone knows a stocker who has the experience and knows how to make a correct "restoration" forened for this gun, I'd appreciate knowing.

Thanks

[eightbore]

Why not send it to Wenig? The guy who built the stock may recognize his work. Are you referring to the long splinter when you mention a restoration forearm?

[Researcher]

Your beavertail is certainly a good match for a Savage-era skeet or field beavertail.



I have yet to see anyone make a restoration of the long slim Fox high grade forearm as shallow as the originals. Even the ones on Tony's guns are deeper then the ones from North 18th and Windrim.

[Shooter]

Wow..... you're right, that is a pretty good match.

Although the forend on the gun was, as I said, poor quality American Walnut, I did like the pattern, and duplicated it on the new stock. It appears that the one which came on the gun was perhaps a copy of the pic here. Maybe even an original which was added to the gun later; but the shaping at the action end is different... the "angle" on the pictured forend is sharper. It seems to me, however, that the inletting on it was not as good as on the originals I've seen on other guns, but I'll take another look.

Eightbore... yes, I'd like one like the original, longer and slim splinters. Contacting Wenig might be a good idea. Thanks.

[mike campbell]

If you fellas would size your pics to 800 pixels maximum in the longest dimension, we could view the whole pic without having to scroll.

Welcome, Shooter. In addition to Silvers and myself, there are a couple others here who appreciate custom Foxes.

This is a pic of Donnie Gemes' intepretation of the "long" splinter on the right and an original 20ga on the left (don't have a 12). Having never seen an original, I can't say how it compares, but I can't see how you could make one any slimmer....



Here it is on the gun. One thing I note is that the extra length gives it the appearance in profile of not being parallel to the barrels. In other words, the top edge where it meets the barrels appears curved. The same thing occurs on a regular splinter towards the tip, but the extra length exacerbates it here....



This is my interpretation of a semi-beavertail for a target 12....



It's as slim and minimal as I can make it, yet have it be hand-filling, protect my fingers from the heat and maintain a graceful bottom line through the action and grip.

[Silvers]

Mike, thanks for the "plug" re: liking custom Foxes. As you know
it's a natural carryover from being a shooter and recognizing the
inherent excellence of the Fox design. Sentiment for Foxes
helps too. It's so tough finding long barreled Foxes with good,
high stock dimensions.

So I end up doing stock work on guns that are decent mechanically
but with stocks that already have been cut excessively or modified
so they're not in the collector category.

Also, I have to tell you I drool all over the keyboard every time
you post pics of your work.

Hey, are you and Mike K going to be at the 12/29 registered shoot
at Rochester Brooks? I'm hoping to be there if the weather
cooperates.

Here's some pics of an original C-grade splinter forend and a
replacement long X/D/F type schnabel. The schnabel one is 9-3/8"
long as compared with 8-1/4" on the regular C grade splinter.
9-3/8" is the Fox factory length for the schnabel type. Pretty slim
huh? Silvers

note-the one pic was taken at an angle so the ruler markings make
both forends look a bit longer than they are.

[eightbore]

I was not aware that the X Grade style of long splinter was a schnabel. Are some made that way and some made without the schnabel? I'm starting on an "Early A" project pigeon and wildfowl gun and want to use the original long splinter. What's the story? I would also like to hear of Mike's experiences with Donnie Gennes. Did your wood also come from Show Me or did you supply the wood. Thanks.