New to the board, need some help with a gun I am looking to purchase. HE grade 12ga with Full and Full barells. Based off pictures it seems to be in decent shape (~80%?) but I won't see it in person for a couple days. I am familiar with things to look for on the old Ithaca's but never thought I would get a chance to own a nice Fox. Any suggestions for my inspection?
Serial number 874**
Thank you for the newbie help, very grateful!
Dave
dnj21
HE value?
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Re: HE value?
That looks like a Sterlingworth serial number, not one that would be found on an HE-Grade Super-Fox.
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Re: HE value?
Working off what I have been told, wish I had it in hand for this discussion. Looks like I may get to see it tomorrow morning, but it is over an hour away and I will need to decide while there if I want it.
Does this site have a serial number listing directory? I did not see one.....
thank you,
Dave
Does this site have a serial number listing directory? I did not see one.....
thank you,
Dave
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Re: HE value?
No, but here is a link to the Fox serial number chronology on Doublegunshop.com --
http://www.doublegunshop.com/dgsnos1.htm
Fox serial numbers are in blocks by gauge and whether Sterlingworth or graded gun --
12-gauge Graded Guns -- 1 to 35280
12-gauge Sterlingworths -- 50000 to 161556
16-gauge Graded Guns -- 300000 to 303875
16-gauge Sterlingworths -- 350000 to 378481
20-gauge Graded Guns -- 200000 to 203974
20-gauge Sterlingworths -- 250000 to 271304
Single Barrel Trap Guns -- 400000 to 400568
I have some real problems with the published Fox serial number chronology, which was originally put out in 1976 by Lightner Library.
For 16-gauge Fox-Sterlingworths they are showing production of 500 (1931), 600 (1932), 600 (1933), 700 (1934), 1100 (1935), 1500 (1936), 700 (1937) and then 1600 for 1938. Then the serial numbers from 374800 to 378481 are given for 1939 up to the last gun made 8/9/1939. I don't believe there is any way they all of a sudden pumped out 3681 16-gauge Fox-Sterlingworths in eight or nine months!!! From my 20 or so years of recording serial numbers of observed Sterlingworths, guns in the 375,xxx, 376,xxx, 377,xxx and 378,xxx range certainly exist.
On the 12-gauge Fox-Sterlingworths they estimate the highest serial number for 1937 as 145000, for 1938 as 150000 and for 1939 as 155000. Again from my years of observing and recording serial numbers, I haven't recorded a gun between 143802 and 160195, leading me to believe there were about 16000 serial numbers skipped. Perhaps the high 143xxx range was the end of regular production and the guns in the 160xxx and 161xxx range were cleanup of parts and barrels on hand?!? All of the guns I've recorded in that range are 26-inch barrels except one two-barrel set that also has a pair of 28-inch barrels.
The only way to know for sure when your gun was made/shipped is to get a letter on it from the Savage historian --
http://www.foxcollectors.com/factory_letters.htm
The A.H. Fox Collectors Association, Inc. have a copy of the graded gun production cards, but nothing for Sterlingworths. Dues paying members have access to the members only forum, and are entitled to one free card look-up per year. Additional look ups are done for a fee of $25.
http://www.doublegunshop.com/dgsnos1.htm
Fox serial numbers are in blocks by gauge and whether Sterlingworth or graded gun --
12-gauge Graded Guns -- 1 to 35280
12-gauge Sterlingworths -- 50000 to 161556
16-gauge Graded Guns -- 300000 to 303875
16-gauge Sterlingworths -- 350000 to 378481
20-gauge Graded Guns -- 200000 to 203974
20-gauge Sterlingworths -- 250000 to 271304
Single Barrel Trap Guns -- 400000 to 400568
I have some real problems with the published Fox serial number chronology, which was originally put out in 1976 by Lightner Library.
For 16-gauge Fox-Sterlingworths they are showing production of 500 (1931), 600 (1932), 600 (1933), 700 (1934), 1100 (1935), 1500 (1936), 700 (1937) and then 1600 for 1938. Then the serial numbers from 374800 to 378481 are given for 1939 up to the last gun made 8/9/1939. I don't believe there is any way they all of a sudden pumped out 3681 16-gauge Fox-Sterlingworths in eight or nine months!!! From my 20 or so years of recording serial numbers of observed Sterlingworths, guns in the 375,xxx, 376,xxx, 377,xxx and 378,xxx range certainly exist.
On the 12-gauge Fox-Sterlingworths they estimate the highest serial number for 1937 as 145000, for 1938 as 150000 and for 1939 as 155000. Again from my years of observing and recording serial numbers, I haven't recorded a gun between 143802 and 160195, leading me to believe there were about 16000 serial numbers skipped. Perhaps the high 143xxx range was the end of regular production and the guns in the 160xxx and 161xxx range were cleanup of parts and barrels on hand?!? All of the guns I've recorded in that range are 26-inch barrels except one two-barrel set that also has a pair of 28-inch barrels.
The only way to know for sure when your gun was made/shipped is to get a letter on it from the Savage historian --
http://www.foxcollectors.com/factory_letters.htm
The A.H. Fox Collectors Association, Inc. have a copy of the graded gun production cards, but nothing for Sterlingworths. Dues paying members have access to the members only forum, and are entitled to one free card look-up per year. Additional look ups are done for a fee of $25.
Share the knowledge
Re: HE value?
Looks like it is dead in the middle of the 1910 run of Sterlingworths. I have some clsoe up shots with the serial # and there is no mistaking it.
Market seems all over the place on Gunbroker for value, guess it will just come down to what he thinks it's worth. Still trying to figure out the HE grade comment, not sure how they could be confused with a Sterlingworth. They would be dramatically different appearing guns wouldn't they? Unless someone is trying to pull a fast one, but I will have to meet face to face for that I guess.
Thank you,
Dave
Market seems all over the place on Gunbroker for value, guess it will just come down to what he thinks it's worth. Still trying to figure out the HE grade comment, not sure how they could be confused with a Sterlingworth. They would be dramatically different appearing guns wouldn't they? Unless someone is trying to pull a fast one, but I will have to meet face to face for that I guess.
Thank you,
Dave
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eightbore
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Re: HE value?
The HE grade looks a lot like a Sterlingworth. The grade marking on the water table and the serial number range will tell the tale. See if you can get the true complete serial number and post it here before you make a committment.
Re: HE value?
Hopefully my inspection this afternoon will go better than my typing 
Headed out shortly with cash in hand, wish me luck......
Headed out shortly with cash in hand, wish me luck......
Re: HE value?
Researcher was right on, not sure where the HE came from. 28" barrells, double triggers, ejectors, pad, choked .038 & .031. Pretty good shape except a small crack on wrist and another beside recevier, both less than an inch long. Some rust issues on right side where it was laying at some point.
Bottom line, glad to have it and paid a very reasonable price. Thank you all for your help!!
Dave
Bottom line, glad to have it and paid a very reasonable price. Thank you all for your help!!
Dave