Early AH Fox Grade B

Odessaman · Post by **Odessaman** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:20 am

I just bought an A H Fox Grade B from a local pawn shop. It's a project gun, as the last 3" of the under rib had loosened at some time in the gun's life and has been resoldered by an obvious amatuer. The barrels are 30", and marked "Krupp Fluid Steel Made By A H Fox Gun Co. Phila. Pa." on the tops and "-Fluid-Steel-Krupp-Essen" on the bottoms. The barrel weights are illegible. The barrel flat near the lug is marked "B" and is serialized "1616" and the barrels have extractors, not ejectors. The flat of the receiver is marked "Pat'd Aug 1, 1905" and beneath that "Oct 17, 1905 - Jan 16, 1906." The serial, 1616, and "B" appears here as well. The serial is also on the trigger guard tang, and on the under side of the latch on the forearm (this area retains a nice case hardened finish - the rest of the exposed stock hardware, trigger guard, receiver and top lever, are in the white with no finish remaining. Engraving is visible, although light (but not obliterated anywhere.) The action locks up tightly, with the lever just right of center when closed. The barrels have a nice patina on the outside, but are severely pitted inside just forward of the chambers, left worse than the right. I have not yet determined the depth of these pits, but it may be severe enough to require sleeving. I think the butt stock, which is uncheckered, may be a replacement, as the wood to metal fit is not perfect in places, and the butt plate is a Herter's, with matching grip cap. It's beautiful walnut, though, with a nice red hue, and no chips, cracks or major dents. I believe the forearm is original, and I can just make out the outline of checkering that's now worn smooth by use. I'm considering restoring this, and will start by requesting a factory letter to determine it's oiriginal configuration. Assuming I'm correct, that this is an early Grade B, how common is this variation, and its approximate value? I'm trying to gauge a restoration budget. I've posted a few pictures, and can post more if needed.

abner · Post by **abner** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 6:47 am

Hello: I have an early B in the 8100 range--1907--and I was not able to letter the gun with Mr. Callahan. The Fox cards on the early guns are not complete. Your gun's card may be there, but all the information I got was an approximate production date using cards near my serial number. I think with the problems this gun has, it would be wiser to buy a B grade Fox in better condition than spend what it would take to bring this gun back to shooting condition. My gun is in similar condition--the barrels are better and the stock in worst condition--and I have not started the gun because of the expense it would take to restore the gun and its value when I finished. You will spend much more than the gun is worth. This may not be a consideration for you and you may do much of the work yourself, if this is the case then the cost may be less. I don't know the value of your gun, but with the barrel condition it would lower the value alot. I think others on this site have more knowledge on restoration than I do and they will be of great help. I'm just letting you know what I found when I tried to restore a similar B. Good Luck

Post by **fox-admin** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:20 am

Your gun is one of the early style B's with the first style of engraving with no birds. I would estimate fewer than 100 B's were made with this engraving style. The safety slide is a style I have never seem before. If I owned the gun I would not put a penny into it due to the barrel problems. Just relaying the rib and re-bluing the barrels would cost $1000. If the chambers are pitted that is a major strike against the gun. There are way to many good Fox guns on the market to spend your money restoring your gun.

Odessaman · Post by **Odessaman** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:15 pm

fox-admin wrote:I would estimate fewer than 100 B's were made with this engraving style. The safety slide is a style I have never seem before.

That's really interesting - too bad this one wasn't better cared for.

Just relaying the rib and re-bluing the barrels would cost $1000. If the chambers are pitted that is a major strike against the gun.

Well, since it has very little collector value as is, I'd consider having the barrels cut back to 26" and reblued to solve the rib problem. The chambers appear to be OK, it's the barrel sections just forward of the chambers that are pitted. So the question becomes whether the barrels can be salvaged by chamber lengthening / polishing vs. getting 16 or 20 gauge tubes fitted inside them, and of course the cost. I bought this one very reasonably, and around here Sterlingworths seem to be going for $800 and up, and in poorer exterior condition than this one. I should have clarified that I'm not looking for a collector-grade restoration - this will be a gift for my dad, whether it's a shooter or a wall hanger. Other than the barrels, I probably wouldn't do much more to it, other than a good cleaning and perhaps refinish the wood myself. The rest of the metal I'd leave in the white, and maybe get a correct butt plate and grip cap.

Thanks for the evaluations, any other thoughts anyone has are appreciated.

mike campbell · Post by **mike campbell** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:30 pm

If I were contemplating the restoration, first thing I'd do is spend $20 on shipping to get those barrels into the hands of someone competent to evaluate them. And that means someone who offers a complete strip and relay of the ribs as a normal service. Unless there's a showstopper somewhere, you should be able to get them relaid and reblacked for close to $500. Again, the "severe pitting" is the greatest cause for concern. If it were my project and didn't have the pitting isssue, a complete metal restoration and restock (with some of my own elbow grease) would run me about $1500.

Odessaman · Post by **Odessaman** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 6:22 pm

mike campbell wrote:If I were contemplating the restoration, first thing I'd do is spend $20 on shipping to get those barrels into the hands of someone competent to evaluate them.

I agree, that's a wise investment, and I'm thinking about sending them to Mike Orlen. I've heard good things about his work, and from what I've read, he can do everything than can or should be done for them (or he'll tell me it's a lost cause.) I'm open to other suggestions, via PM or email, if anyone has them.

Thanks for the feedback.

eightbore · Post by **eightbore** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:13 pm

Don't mail the barrels anywhere unless the person you're mailing them to says he can do all the rib work as well as the finish and pit removal. The rib work is not rocket science, you don't need to cut the barrels. That would be a big mistake. Some day, someone will find it worthwhile to restore the gun but short barrels would ruin it. Keith Kearcher is a gunsmith who can do everything including the ribs, fast, and less expensive than others.