Fitting barrels from another Fox

[spyder]

Can a "new" ejector barrel be fitted on an "old" ejector frame?

Thanks,

Frank

[bbman3]

If you are referring to new old stock in the white Fox barrels they can be fitted.16 or 20 gauge barrels can be fitted to smallbore frame or 12 ga to 12 ga unless HE 0 barrels. Then you would need the large frame.Extractor barrels can be fitted to ejector frame or other way around.You have to file down top of hinge pin stud to fit ejector to extractor frame or remove ejectors. Bobby

[Silvers]

If I'm reading this correctly I think Spyder Frank is asking about fitting a barrel from a Fox with Russell (later style) ejectors, onto a frame that was made with Fox & Horne early style ejectors.

If the breech width is very close I see no reason the later barrel can't be fitted to the earlier frame. However, on any barrel swap there are multiple surfaces that must be mated, all at the same time, and that involves a lot more than welding up the hook and going at it with a round file. Also the barrel loop/forend iron wedge interface and the forend latch hook will undoubtedly have to be refitted, and that will probably involve micro welding. The original F&H style forend should be used. Alternately a Russell style forend from the later barrels could be fitted, but the frame would have to be converted to the later style ejector trips. If using the original forend, the O.D. profile of the replacement barrel would have to be similar to the original barrel - so that the channels in the f/e wood fit tightly. And to do it right the s/n and possible the grade stamp on the barrel flats will have to be microtigged and restamped to match the frame number. Lastly, if fitting something like an A Grade barrel to a C Grade frame, the wedges will have to be engraved, along with the rib filings at the muzzle.

All told this is very involved work and is not for the average, or even an advanced home hobbyist to attempt. I've looked at many Foxes over the years with mismatched barrels that were off face on one or both barrels, had loose forends, ejector problems, ill fit or filing on the top of the barrel extension, file marks on the back end of the breeches, etc etc. That's probably why they were on the market. Saddest one was an early two barrel DE set.

So the next question is... who can do this work? One gunsmith I recommend without reservation is Dewey Vicknair. Last I heard Dewey isn't taking on work from new clients, but it would be worth a call. Another possibility is Dan Rossiter at Custom Stocks & Steel. Again, give Dan a call to discuss what you expect in the way of a factory equivalent fit.

Sorry for my ramblings here..... but Spyder's question is timely. Silvers

[Silvers]

Had a couple of PM and email questions on what caused the choke bulging on that CE. Here's a copy of my reply to one.

> The bores were honed way too large despite giving a max size diameter to the barrel honing guy.... "hone to X even tho there might be some pits remaining". The (so called) barrel man agreed to that multiple times, but went ahead to hone way oversize here and there along both bore runs until all the pits were gone, which resulted in real thin walls at the choke leades. The bulging became apparent after shooting about 300 rounds of light lead loads on a clays course. Expensive lesson learned and of course the barrel guy said he wasn't responsible due to the ~100 year old steel.... which was total BS. Dad used to call these guys "hackers".

To be sure, there are many excellent gunsmiths who do fine quality work, but a bad experience or two with a hacker can be an expensive experience and/or ruin a fine Fox gun. Incidentally this barrel guy is in the east part of the country; again no names. Silvers

[spyder]

Thanks Frank Silvers. I have a post on DGS looking for similar bbls which is a long shot.but an interim solution would be to find an A grade early ejector barrel set and have it fitted and possibly engraved to match. I would guess that would be cheaper than having it sleeved.

[Germantown]

If you'll look on GI- I believe John Allen has a set of 12 gauge AE 28: barrels- We owe Frank a great deal of thanks for his insight and experiences in this area. He is also a gentleman of the old school, in that he refuses to name the names of those "Hackers'. The fact that he endorses Dewey Vicknair, as do I and legions of others, also speaks voilumes.

Frank, just to further our education here- Is there any real difference between the first style ejectors and the later that might affect fitting to different receivers, as the inital posting raised this question> Also, does the barrel weight as stamped numerically on Fox barrel sets affect this "swapping process" in any way- including balance of the finished and as assembled shotgun? Many thanks!!

[Silvers]

This will be my last post on this thread. Questions asked and answered. I just don't have the time to add more here, sorry.

Early and late Fox barrels may be swapped within gauges. Fitting is required; the chance of a barrel set properly fitting a different frame is ~ nil. The critical swap parameters are: width of the breeches as compared with the breech balls, and with respect to forend fit, the O.D. profiles of the barrels. Within manufacturing tolerances the ejectors (parts in the barrels) are essentially the same on early and late barrels. There are some minor differences in the mill cut locations on the ejector stems, which affect the shell lift when unfired shells are extracted. Also, the ejector stems may have to be shortened or lengthened when barrels are swapped.

Barrel weight number isn't always stamped on the underside of the breeches. Barrel length and weight (mass) greatly affect the swing dynamics of the gun. I've noticed the difference myself after getting competition o/u barrels backbored, with as little as 2-3 ounces of weight removed.

Silvers