Original Fox engravers

PeteM · Post by **PeteM** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:48 am

Who were the original engravers at the Fox factory? Do we have many / any names?

Pete

Researcher · Post by **Researcher** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:17 am

Other then Billy Gough who designed the 2nd generation engraving and did a handful of the high grade and show guns, I've not heard a name of a Fox engraver. Whoever engraved the Becker guns had a style diffeerent then any of the Fox factory engravers. Gough seems to have spent most of his time doing high grade guns for Winchester and Colt rather then engraving mid-level Fox guns.

eightbore · Post by **eightbore** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 5:58 pm

I would expect that the most serious student of Becker guns knows something about who engraved them. I have heard some researchers or students claim that Burt Becker knew how to engrave and possibly engraved the guns. What do others think? My great grandfather was a Philadelphia Becker, a jeweler, watchmaker, probably an engraver, and maybe he engraved the Becker shotguns. Certainly the small, conservative engraving on Becker guns was not done by the same people who designed the bold engraving patterns and engraved the late generation Foxes.

PeteM · Post by **PeteM** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:40 pm

Excuse my ignorance. What are the Becker guns? Is there an example some where?

Thanks,

Pete

Researcher · Post by **Researcher** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:33 pm

Mostly Ansley H. Fox doubles, but some of other makes, bored, fitted and finished by Burt Becker. Some were made as A.H. Fox Gun Co. guns and are serial numbered as such, and some were made purely by Burt and so marked and serial numbered in his series which ends with 121, the famous Nash Buckingham's "BoWhoop II." There have been articles in The Double Gun Journal on several -- the pair made for Nash and his friend Henry Bartholomew 33,050 and 33,051 with Whitworth barrels -- the Senator Hawes Savage-era 20-gauge waterfowl gun with 30-inch barrels -- and I think Becker serial numbers 1 and 2 were also covered.

Burt worked both at Remington Arms Co. and Parker Bros. before coming to work at A.H. Fox Gun Co. He stayed with A.H. Fox Gun Co. thru the move to Utica, and then returned to a small shop of his own on Gratz Street in Philadelphia.

As I recall McIntosh did an article on Burt in Sporting Classics some years back, and there is an article on Bo Whoop II in the new Double Gun Journal Index and Reader.

DGKaas · Post by **DGKaas** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:12 pm

Dave-when did Burt Becker work for Parker Bros.?-Don

Post by **fox-admin** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:12 pm

Here is a picture of a Becker Fox

[/img]

Mark Copeland · Post by **Mark Copeland** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:46 pm

Admin,

Is that varnish wearing off the receiver? if so, was varnish done after the gun left the factory or was it original?

Researcher · Post by **Researcher** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:06 pm

Don,

I'm up here in Kodiak, away from my research materials. But, as I remember, Becker worked at Parker Bros. in the 1890s then went to Remington Arms Co. around the turn-of-the-century and built the Remington guns for the 1904 exposition?!?

Dave

Post by **fox-admin** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:41 pm

Mark: The case color on many vintage guns weres lacquered from the factory. On many high condition guns the lacquer remains and has darkened and flaked. I believe that is what you see on the Becker gun pictured. Lacquer on the case color is quit common on LC Smith guns, I am not sure if it was done on Fox factory guns, others should know.

200052 · Post by **200052** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:25 pm

Eightbore-does your reference to the "most serious student " of Becker guns refer to any particular person ?

loggy · Post by **loggy** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 11:21 pm

I spoke with Mr. Tom Kidd about the #120 gun pictured here. It was my understanding that it was engraved by William Gough. I understand it does not look like his other examples. Perhaps one of his engravers may have done the work? I have a short list of known Becker serial numbers, most of which were previously posted here, if there is any interest. It would be nice to have a section on the home page devoted to the Becker's .

eightbore · Post by **eightbore** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:58 am

Yes, my reference to a "most serious student" of Becker guns refers to Mr. Kidd. He may have something to add about the engravers. The mention of Gough as a possible engraver would be fine if his work timetable could be made congruent with the late Beckers like #120, the one pictured. I don't have those work dates handy. Researcher can probably fill us in on Gough's active period. Other Becker guns are similarly engraved in patterns very uncharacteristic of Gough, and I question the Gough connection. Maybe someone can comment on the comparison between late Savage Fox engraving and the Becker work. It is very likely that #120 has factory applied lacquer since it was owned by Henry A. Bartholomew who had a room full of high grade guns and apparently didn't use #120 very much. #120 is in high original condition and like other Foxes of the period, was probably laquered when new. I'm sure Burt Becker used Savage issued lacquer to treat his guns. Even Model Bs were laquered as I remember, although I may be suffering from memory loss on that issue.

Mark Copeland · Post by **Mark Copeland** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 12:12 pm

If varnish was used as standard practice then why is it an issue to use it today other than changing the gun from its original condition? I've been thinking about adding varnish (by an expert) for one of my foxes to keep what's left of the CC but have been advised in the past not to do.

Thanks,

MC

Glenn Fewless · Post by **Glenn Fewless** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:07 pm

fox-admin wrote:Here is a picture of a Becker Fox
[/img]

Mr. fox-admin:

Do you have more pictures of this gun that you could post? Particularly of the top and bottom?

Mr. Hurst and I are engaged in a debate over how my Fox should be engraved and we were both taken with the engraving on this gun. Thank you for you help.

Glenn Fewless