Utica-Fox Sterlingworth-Quoted Price Reasonable?

[BarkeyVA]

I am new to this forum and this is my first post. Other than my dad's Springfeld-Steverns Model 215 sxs hammer gun with the barrels cut to 20", I have never owned a "vintage" sxs. I would like to find a 16 ga. sxs that weighs around 6-1/2 lb. or less, has 2-3/4" chambers and has "modern" dimensions (for example: 14 to 14-1/4 LOP, 1-1/2' to 1-5/8' and 2-1/2' to 2-5/8' drop) for upland bird hunting and an occasional round of skeet and sporting clays. (The very early model "classics" generally have way too much drop for me.)

I found a 16 ga. Utical-Fox Sterlingworth described as follows: "Really clean Fox Sterlingworth, all factory finish including wood, with great stock dimensions to a butt plate. It has 28" barrels with 97% factory blue, 2 3/4" chambers, choked Sk/IC (.006/.012), exc. bores, barrels ring like church bells (tight ribs), great screws, extractors. Wood has no cracks or repairs, very good checkering, 14 1/8" LOP to factory plate, excellent finish, no big dings, pistol grip, splinter, 2-5/8" drop at heel, 1-9/16" drop at comb. Receiver has about 25% case color, balance silvery grey, no polishing, no patina." I've received photos, and it appears to be as described.

The dealer quoted $1350 delivered to my FFL, and I'd like to know if $1350 is a reasonable price for a 16 ga. Utica-Fox Sterlingworth as described above. Thanks in advance for your comments.

[mc15426378]

Sounds like a nice gun but here are my thoughts. First, I would bet the chambers have been opened to 2 3/4. Not a big issue IF there is enough barrel metal left after this. Second, the chokes most likely have been opened to the SK/IC. Not a big issue if the work was done properly. Description also states "no big dings". This could be a big issue.

Assuming all the normal SxS items check out and the above are ok then in my opinion the $1,350.00 is a fair price for the gun.

Mike

[Twice Barrel]

The barrels have most assuredly been opened up. Standard 16 gauge Sterlingworth's were chambered for 2 9/16 th shells until the late 1930's and were choked Modified and Full. This is not a collector grade gun or exceptionally high condition gun so it falls into the category of a fine shooter and Skeet and IC chokes are excellent for preserve shooting and wild bird hunting over pointing dogs with shots that don't exceed 35 yard for the average shooter. The quoted price seems pretty fair if the description is accurate but remember a seller's description is sometime embellished. I would offer 10 to 15% less and require a 5 day inspection period to make sure the gun is as advertised.

[BarkeyVA]

The serial number is 376xxx and the dealer said it was "made in 1939 or so." Can anyone confirm the date? If it was made in 1939, is it possible that it came from the factory with 2-3/4" chambers?

Regarding the chokes, a chart from Colonial Arms shows .006" closer to IC than Skeet and .012" between Skeet II and Modified. Any commets?

[Researcher]

That could well be the case with a gun in the 376xxx range. The 1938 catalogues began the "chambered for 2 3/4 inch shells" statement. The only way to "confirm" anything would be a letter from John Callahan, though there isn't usually a lot of information on the late Savage-era Fox-Sterlingworth cards.

[Twice Barrel]

I have Fox Sterlingworth 374938 which shows up as a 1938 gun. It is marked "PROOF TESTED---16 Gauge" over "2 3/4 inch Chambers" on the left barrel so I am sure your prospective gun left Utica with 2 3/4 in chambers as well. Absent a Callahan letter the best way to determine the chokes is to shoot some patterns but as choked I think you will find this a good hunter.

[eightbore]

Your gun will probably shoot patterns that resemble IC and MOD. Some 16 gauge guns with .012 of choke will kill a pheasant dead at 40 yards. It sounds like a good gun for the price.

[vaturkey]

Since you've received photo's, you might want to post a few of them here and we can give you a few more opinions. PS. I've got pretty much that same gun and its choked .005 and .015. It will indeed kill a pheasant or a grouse at 40 yards with RST loads.

[BarkeyVA]

Did your gun come from the factory with those chokes or did you have the bores opened up? I asked the dealer a similar question about the gun in question. He said that the right barrel choke measures 2 3/8" of taper, left barrel measures 2 3/4" taper. Do those measurements indicate it is original or suggest that it has been altered? If it was altered, should I be concerned?

As for photos, I do not know how to post them. However, I'd be interested in your opinion. Please provide your email in a PM and I'll be happy to forward them to you.

[BarkeyVA]

I picked up the gun on Saturday. It is exactly as described, and the stock seems to fit me really well. Hope to pattern it and shoot some clays with it in a couple of days. This is my first Fox so I know very little about how they work. I have a number of Marlin Model 90 O/U's, and I've converted most of them to manual safeties, which I prefer, by simply removing the safety button bar. Is it possible to do something similar to convert the Fox from an automatic to a manual safety?

[scaupman]

Congrats on your first Fox!

[Twice Barrel]

Is it possible to do something similar to convert the Fox from an automatic to a manual safety?

Follow the disassembly instructions http://www.foxcollectors.com/disassembly.htm and remove the auto safety rod from the hole in the right side of the stock head. Re-assemble in reverse order.

If you are sure you won't want it again mail it to me. I'm short one.

[BarkeyVA]

Twice Barrel

Thanks for providing the link to the disassembly instructions. At this point, I don't know when I'll get to it as I'll need to accumulate the proper tools. If do remove it and decide to get rid of it, I'll let you know.

[mike campbell]

TB,

PM me with your address and I'll send you one.

[BarkeyVA]

This is a repeat of my post on the Technicana forum in case some of you missed it.

I have been very impressed with the willingness of members of this forum to provide detailed answers, opinions and advice in response to my many PM's, emails and questions about Fox-Sterlingworths in general and my purchase in particular. Thank you all! While I am not a member yet, I think it is only right that registered users who are getting expert advice from the knowledgeable folks on the Fox Collectors Forums become paying members. I'll be printing out the membership application later today.