Unusual barrel flat stamping - Factory reproof?

[Silvers]

I'm compiling pics of unusual barrel flat and water table stampings and trying to correlate with reason for stamping same. Here's one that's on an A grade 2nd gen straight grip that I found a few months ago. For those familiar with the US Ordnance "Flaming Bomb" proof stamp, it looks similar. This gun has very heavy barrel breech width and full 2-3/4" chambers that from the looks of the cones don't appear to have been retro-lengthened. I speculate this is a Fox Phila factory reproof stamp. I doesn't make sense to me that the factory would restamp the regular Fox Proof oval on a gun that was reproofed for whatever reason. Also I'm aware that Savage used a different barrel stamp when they reproofed guns sent in for work.

Wondering if any of you have this stamp on one of your guns, and if so if you're aware of any obvious rework features? Silvers

[MARSHFELLOW]

I've never seen that stamp on any Fox I've handled......nor do I recall seeing the gauge stamp on the bbls flats as a rule. interesting.

tjw

[james-l]

Frank, I have a BE 12ga made in 1915 that has been back to Savage for some a work, it has the usual 2 3/4 chamber stamp on the left barrel, no unusual stamps on the rest of the gun. The barrels are now 26 1/2 ", probably the reason it went to them. Interestingly the barrels are #2 Krupp but are quite heavy, I have been looking for a set of Krupp barrels for it but all the ones I have tried are too small for the action fences.

Jim A.

[FRBRIT]

I doubt it's a re-proof stamp. It does look like a US ordinance stamp, this gun was probably in US military ordinance for some reason. Either a gunnery practice gun or possible on a military base trap range gun.

[Silvers]

Thanks gents for your inputs. I really don't think it's an US Ordnance stamp. All the Ordnance Flaming Bomb stamps I've seen have a more stylicized flame in sort of diamond shape with its upper point curling to the right. The flames on this one are very much different, more uniform and not in a diamond shape at all. This is on a 1916 A grade gun with Krupp barrels. Tom, I have an AE that's about 400 numbers earlier than this one and the "12 ga" is also stamped on the barrel flats, same location as this one. Frank

[MARSHFELLOW]

Im with FRBRIT, I have to believe this is a Ordinance stamp, albeit a different style, less stylized as Silvers points out. I wouldnt think someone would use a mark that is so similar for another purpose.

tjw

[Researcher]

Frank, I don't know what it is, but I doubt it is "factory" Philadelphia or Utica, and it sure is no U.S. Ordnance bomb. Any chance the gun may have gone to Great Britain for the Home Guard?

Marshfellow, That stamping of the gauge on the right barrel flat seems to have been a practice in the 1913 to 1918 time frame. My guns from 1920 and later and 1912 and earlier don't have it, but 1913, 1914 and 1918 do. By 1936 they were stamping the gauge on the watertable at Utica. My 1933 and 34 Savage-era guns don't have it but from 1936 on do.

[Silvers]

Dave, thanks for the reply. There isn't anything else stamped or marked on this Fox that's out of the ordinary, and of course I don't have anything on its history, if it was ever out of the country, British Home Guard use, etc. I agree with the others; the stamp sure looks like it was inspired by the US Ordnance Flaming Bomb.

I checked a couple of LC Smith references and found some martial guns from the WWII era but all of them had the regular Flaming bomb stamp, inspector initials and several had the Crossed Cannons stamp to boot. Frank

[MARSHFELLOW]

Dave,

Thanks for that information...very interesting.

tjw

[ASavageFox]

I've never seen that stamp on any Fox I've handled......nor do I recall seeing the gauge stamp on the bbls flats as a rule. interesting.

tjw

12AE, 23013 is stamped 12GA...

Frank is that in about the same serial range as yours?

Also have seen an early 20 A grade stamped "20GA"

[Silvers]

23097, A grade metalwork with B grade wood (checkered cheeks). The stock appears to be factory work IMO.

Back to that unusual metal stamp, it's odd that the stamping isn't perpendicular to the axis of the barrels as seems typical. If these old Foxes could talk....

[waterman]

Frank you said the gun has a heavy barrel breech. I have an Iver Johnson single barrel with a 34" barrel that has this mark on it. The gun even says reinforced barrel breach I picked the gun up just looking at some gun dealers here on the net. Anyway you have a nice gun there I bet you are proud of it. Donnie