Not a tight lock-up ?

[HardCash]

As some might have noticed on the other Fox forum, I just purchased my 1st Fox, a 12 ga Sterlingworth. I was concerned because I could see daylight between the breech end of the barrel and the receiver, not the lower water table. I discovered it only happened with my A-Zoom snap caps inserted. It locks-up tight with Remington STS shell and I even shot 5 or 6 clay targets and everything was fine. However I recieved some RST shells and it will not lock-up tight. I can see daylight on the top half of the left barrel and receiver with these shells inserted, like the snap caps!.
Could someone recommend a competent Fox gunsmith or offer a suggestion?

[Silvers]

This is a problem I've seen with several Foxes, both SW's and graded guns. Also with one Parker. From your description it sounds like the headspace is too tight = rim cut isn't deep enough for modern shells. That "seeing light at the watertable" thing doesn't have anything to do with it. I thoroughly inspected and measured these problem guns because I just couldn't believe Fox and Parker would send out a gun(s) like that. Also measured a bunch of vintage paper shells. My conclusion is that the rims of old time shells (REAL BRASS) are somewhat thinner as a rule, and overthick ones will squash into shallow rim cuts in the barrels, whereas modern steel base/plated shells are generally thicker and will not deform as easily. With modern steel base shells and minimum headspace, the gun won't lock up like it should and will show light at the top of the barrel/breech interface. Modern STS's and AA's do have real brass bases but of course they are loaded to modern pressures = higher than when any Fox was made.

I have a series of pics on how to correct this headspace problem but was planning to do some Fox gunsmithing articles for one of the journals, so I'll reserve those and just post one here to show what I'm talking about. Rim cuts can be easily deepened if you are handy and have access to a rim cutter, depth mike, etc., but if not I'd suggest sending the gun to a competent gunsmith. If your shells sit like this, Dewey Vicknair would be my first choice. Silvers

[mc15426378]

HardCash

As a suggestion, Winchester has shells in a AA low recoil/noise load that are very mild, much softer than the Nitros. I shoot these in my 12s sometimes and they will break clays, though maybe not as well as a Nitro. Your gun might handle the Nitros action/metal wise but they will be hard on the wood, IMHO, and will eventually lead to stock problems.

I do need to add that some of my guns do not like the Winchester loads. I suspect the primer is flowing around the firing pins which causes the gun to be hard to open. I reload the AAs and use Remington primers with no issues so I believe my suspicion on the primers is correct. Wallyworld usually has the AAs in stock for approx. $7.00 per box.

Great info Silvers, as usual. Look forward to the article.

Mike

[HardCash]

I did talk to Dewey today and he told me about the internal rim not being cut deep enough, so I'm sending him the gun on 11/03/09.
I am also having him give me an estimate on restoring the receiver. The stock has too much drop for me, but I'll have Wenig replace the stock later.
The Remington STS mentioned are the Managed Recoil 12 ga with 7/8 oz shot, not Nitros.
The Remington STS have a lower felt recoil for me than the Winchester AA Winlites.

[NJdblgun]

I've noticed problems with store bought shells and primer hang up in my Fox guns (sorry, i dont reload as yet). The Federal low recoil 2 3/4" rounds do hang up in the Fox guns, but the new low recoil Fiocchi work fine. I noticed that the Fiocchi primers are flat, but the Federals are rounded. Neither round has much recoil, and hopefully will not hurt the old wood.

Restocking: as a couple members know, I like the original guns, regardless of condition; there is a lot of history in that worn wood. Rather than restocking for $1500 and up, how about looking for a companion Fox, with less drop? the cost would be less, and maybe vary the barrel length, etc? Hope I am not intruding with my comments, Scott

[HardCash]

Good point on the wood, so I may just add something to raise the drop at the comb. When mounted, I con't see rib or the bead, all I can see is the back of the receiver.
The old advice of shooting a shotgun, head on the stock and eye on the target, won't work with this shotgun. The only eye that could even see the target is my left eye and I'm right handed and right eye dominant!! I don't want this to be a closet queen or a wall hanger.

[lee r moege]

Great pix as usual Frank. Just for giggles and grins I put some RST's in my 20 Ga. AE and the case rim is slightly below flush maybe .003/.005 at most. I put some Federal low brass WallyWorld shells in my A grade 2 barrel set gun , [not that I intend to shoot them in it] with the same results in both sets of barrels. Whew!!!! I got the 20 Ga. this spring and have never had a chance to shoot it yet so I thought I would check it before I stumbled over something I didn't want to see. Regards, Lee.