disassembly?

[gunner]

The pictures and instructions on the site for removing the stock are first rate. I was wondering if there is a good source of info for a total strip down? My Sterlingworth apparently spent a great deal of time in a closet some where after a lot of use. The ejectors would not have passed anyones inspection prior to my total strip and clean. I would like a little direction taking the guts out of the receiver.

[Twice Barrel]

A complete dis-assembly is best left to a professional, however, you can do a pretty good job of cleaning up a gun that just has a build up of gunk by removing the wood, soaking the major components in a good solvent, taking a medium brush to the works and then repeating the soaking/cleaning process a couple times. Be sure you lube the interior parts lightly with a good synthetic lubricant before you reassemble.

[gunner]

While I am not a pro yet, Iam signed up for the double gun class at Trinidad this summer, and have been inside A&D boxlocks, L C Smiths and Parkers. I was just looking for some guidance so I don't make any silly mistakes.

[DoubleGun]

Gunner,
If you can take apart a Parker your Fox will be a piece of cake. Parkers have about three times the number of parts a Fox has. Most everything is straight forward until you get to the hammers. Getting them out is a matter of driving the pin out with a similar size drift and gently releaseing the hammer against main spring pressure. Getting the hammers back in requires a strong push drift brought to bear against the back side of the hammer. The hammer will sort of rotate into place and hang up on the frame. You then get another bite and push it all the way home. This is one of the few places where you use a fair amount of force on a gun. The only parts you won't get out are the ejector trips, if the gun is an ejector. These little flat plates are captive in the frame. They are the little projections that stick out the nose of the bar. They ride in a split rod that is part of the main spring cup. So when you put the hammers back, make sure the trips are in the split of the rod.
Cheers,
DoubleGun

[gunner]

Thank you for the tips. The JB Wood books don't have the Fox Guns and I don't know why. The hammer in and out sounds similar to the Anson & Deely. Ivery much appreciate your input.

[Doug Mann]

Gunner, I have stripped and reassembled A LOT of Foxes over the years so maybe I can be of some help to you. You've received some good advice so far but maybe I can get you where you want to go.

After driving out the hammer pin with the correct size punch ( I drive it out most of the way and use a pair of parallel jaw pliers to pull the pin out the rest of the way) you will find that the hammers have set back against the frame because of hammer spring pressure. Put the frame in your vise bottom side up and tap on the back side of the hammer where it meets the hammer block inside the frame with either a hardwood dowel or ( in my case a Delrin dowel). If your are very lucky the hammer(s) will pop right out. If you are unlucky some wiggling front and aft will be needed. The hammers will come out!

Now comes the fun part! Since your gun has ejectors the hammer spring cup has a long tapered nose with a split in the tapered end. I use a pair of fairly large long-nose pliers to grasp the outside of the spring cup and pull. A little side to side wiggle sometimes helps to release the spring cup from the ejector trip which I'll talk about in a moment. When you have the spring cup out remove the hammer spring and place all the parts in the container of your choice and mark the side, left or right, on the container. I'm not sure that keeping the spring cups separate is all that important but it sure can't hurt. Now you're ready to remove the ejector trips and the collar that holds them in place. I use a long 5/32 punch to do this although the access hole is slightly larger than that. The ejector trips and the collars are driven out from the back of the frame using the 5/32 punch and a light hammer. They generally come out pretty easy. BTW, I seen one piece collars and two piece collars. Place the ejectors trip and collars in separate containers and mark them left and right. Please note that the front of the ejector trip (the cross shaped spring) has a taper filed into it. It must be reassembled the same way with the curve starting at the bottom of the frame and going up if that makes any sense.

Some say that they don't remove the ejector trips from the frame but quite honestly the gun is much easier to reassemble if they are removed. They have to be removed if you plan on re-color casing the gun.

Reassembly has its own little caveats. The hammer spring cup MUST be placed with the split in the end parallel to the water table or the ejector trips will not assemble correctly and you will have to remove the hammer(s) again and do it right. Please note that I put the ejector trips and collars in LAST because it's much easier to see the splits in the spring cups from the front than it is to wiggle and fiddle from the rear.

You will see that the hammers have an angled top that helps in putting the hammers back in place. Place the correct hammer in position and using your dowel or Delrin rod give a good solid rap, with a fairly heavy hammer, on the dowel on the back of the hammer where the cocking extension is. A slight angle of the dowel will move the hammer forward and down at the same time and the hammer will drop into place. I suggest that you put one hammer in at a time. The reason I say this is bcause if you look at the side of the action most times the hammer axel hole in the frame and the hole in the hammer will not line up. I use a tapered alignment pin to do this (Brownells #080-645-011AB will do the trick). Push the alignment pin all the way to the center block so the hammer is in alignment. Then using you axel pin start from the other side and drive the alignment pin back out of the hammer assembly all the way out of the frame. Then, using your punch drive the axel pin far enough in so that the axel pin is inside the center block. Put your other hammer in place and use the alignment pin the same way to move the hammer forward then drive the axel pin back through the frame (I use a small brass hammer)and you are done. It takes me longer to write this than to do the job.

You are now ready to reinstall the ejector trips. You should be able to see the split end of the hammer spring cup extension and align the slit with the back of the ejector trip (the cross shaped spring). Remember that the curve at the front of the ejector trip starts at the bottom of the frame and
sweeps up. Tap the ejector trip and collar in using a small brass hammer and you should be good to go.

Hope this helps you!

p.s. You will really enjoy the double gun class with Dennis Potter. He is a good friend, extremely knowledgeable and a fine teacher.

[FOXIST]

DoubleGun and Doug Mann Thanks for taking the time to stop by and help. We appreciate your expertise. I know both you gentleman know your way around a Fox. gunner you are getting some great advise here.
Paul

[gunner]

I very much appreciate all of you taking the time to share your knowledge with me. It will be very valuable.

[Dblgnr]

Just another guy chiming in to say thanks for this information. I have a Sterlingworth and had asked about disassembly. This poor gun has seen far too much neglect over the years. If it were just a matter of "grunge" clean up, a good soak and blow dry and relube might do it but once the rust is involved in a big way, well you gotta dismantle. Knowledgeable smiths can be hard to find and the further you are from a big center, the less likely you can find one. Those who engineered good guns went for simplicity in functionality. The major American doubles achieved that and once you understand their inner workings, then a full dis-assembly/re-assembly is possible for the "mechanically" inclined. That said, there is often that little unknown hitch that can cause you to damage something or end up dismantling a second time to get re-assembly correct. If I have to repeat the disassembly/reassembly for a part or two, I look at it as a further learning opportunity and practice for the next gun. I don't suppose anyone here has more than one.

My only problem so far is the removal of the large screw on the top lever assembly. I can see it is very fine thread and it is stubbornly in place, which I suspect is a rust issue. Besides soaking with good penetrant, are there any other hints to budge a "rust welded" screw?? I have tried gentle tapping (around 100 taps) using a tight fitting hollow ground tip and brass hammer after a long (days) soak, to no avail. Is gentle warming with a torch a good or bad idea for that screw and the components held together? Or, is more soaking/tapping the way to go. My motto is "no harm" during the process.


Thanks gents,
Jack

[spyder]

I have yet to see a screw that couldn't be removed unbuggered using a drill press and a properly fitting screwdriver bit. If you have access to a drill press, set the action/stock in the table so that the tang screw slot is square to the bit. I wrap the wood in towels and jig it up with scrap wood. Oh yeah, make sure the press is unplugged!!! If you have a helper have him hold the piece securely while you lower the bit tight into the screw slot. Usually hand- turning the chuck while pressing down firmly with the "press wheel" provides enough leverage, but on occasion I have used a large set of channel lock pliers. Proper bits are a must. I bought a set of the thin Magna Tips which has been a great investment.

[Dblgnr]

Thanks. I'll give that a go. Totally agree re: bits. I purchased a full set and the thin set from Brownell's a couple years back and have never regretted paying that up front price, as a buggered original screw is... well, just that - buggered.

Cheers,
Jack

[Dblgnr]

My little project languishes on a corner of the bench. This screw is still in place after a long soak and the application of more torque than should be necessary to remove any screw. Discovered the screw has been punched. Is this "factory" or a post-factory procedure to lock the parts together. Thanks for any further thoughts on removal.
Regards,
Jack

[Silvers]

The end of the yoke screw is factory peened to keep it from working loose. The peening should be ground off with a tiny tool in a die grinder or dremel, and a new screw will be needed to replace it. Trying to remove without grinding will risk breaking the yoke. One additional comment FWIW - I don't see anything in your pics that can't be cleaned with a good soaking/flushing and a M-16 toothbrush. Personally I would avoid disassembly except to replace a broken or worn part inside. Silvers

[Dblgnr]

Silvers: Thank you for sharing your knowledge. I guess it is really not meant to remove then; unless, as you say, something is broken. Is there a source for yoke screws or are they hard to find?? There is much more hidden rust inside the rest of the guts. I will see where I get without removing the yoke screw. I'm really not happy shooting a gun with significant internal crud and rust. That may mean it is next year's wild roosters that need to fear this old Fox.

Cheers,
Jack

[Silvers]

Two of our members had NOS yoke screws f/s in the past but I'm not sure if they still have any left, and if so, if they sell only to AHFCA members, or to the general public. I'll leave it at that, and if either or both of the member gents I'm referring to has any for sale, they can contact you. Be careful if you buy one from an internet source; usually they're used ones with damaged threads, or were incompletely machined and/or with short threads that can't be peened. New yoke screws can be made on the lathe, and on my own work I do the screw thread end a little long to facilitate peening. Again, I encourage you to think long and hard on doing a full disassembly if nothing is broken, especially on an ejector Fox. Finis. Silvers